在新西兰求个好牙医比登天还难

jackylam

天生天羊 发表于 2016-6-30 22:03
唉，算了，我不和你计较。你想想开个诊所的起码年薪百万吧，谁有空在这里没事逛。你买张特价机票回国护髓， ...

開诊所沒有年薪百万的。。。。。。。。。。。 新西蘭牙醫年薪大約 ＄130K 到 200K。  Specialist will earn around 160K to 250K max.. except Orthodontist and Oral Surgeon, they can earn up to 300 - 500K.  This is according to our annual survey by NZ dental association....

马柚子

想问一下楼主牙齿好了吗，我可以给你推荐一位，不知道你是否还需要呢？

jackylam

匿名者 发表于 2016-6-30 22:11
是的呢  年薪百万（你居然年薪百万 小伙伴们都惊呆了 我都不造你赚多少钱） 嫌得都有副业了  那个兰桂坊  ...

1.  I have corrected her..... dentist doesn't earn that much.....
2.  Everyone has a bucket list..... Please respect everyone's dream......
3.  I only have one account....
4.  NZ dentist are required to attend minimum 80 hours of continous education each cycle in order to have our Annual practising certificate......
5  看你脸就跟奸商一样  恶心 ......  請respect 自己的語行。。。。。 我的脸是爸爸媽媽給我的，你可以不喜歡我的同事，我們公司，我已經offer，如果adjust之後，還是不舒服，我自己免費為你重補。。。。。我同事的問題，我和公司已經幫你安排一步一步的解決方案，你不想來，你不信任，我可以接受。。。  但有必要人身攻擊投訴我的脸嗎？

jackylam

小手冰凉的兔子 发表于 2016-7-1 04:31
哎lz你太激动了你冤枉人家了。那个应该不是老板，那个老板jacky一般都是上大号说话的，以前也有人投诉的， ...

謝謝你。。。。。我剛剛知道，今天上來才知道那麼嚴重！  我200%理由相信。。。。

jackylam

蓝山小野猫商铺 发表于 2016-7-1 09:04
如果你说的是那个连锁店的老板的话。。。

他应该不会用小号跟你啰嗦。。。

you are so right! 你太懂我了。。。。。

jackylam

fallrainsboy 发表于 2016-7-1 09:11
貌似护髓成功率好像真的不是很高，但是好几种情况！！！！

护髓 － has a lot of definition and methods.    LZ is complaining we didn't use Calcium Hydroxide lining.... I have explained to her in my surgery for like 10 to 15 mins and try to make her understand....this is a lining material if your nerve has been exposed...... In Her case, she has not nerve exposure, its not common to use this lining material in this case.....  the disadvantage of Caoh lining in non-exposed situation is :  1. caoh2 doesn't form a bonding to the dentin, and therefore will have micro gaps in between. 2, it doesn't close the dentine tubules and therefore could case sensitivity,  The commonest problem of post operative sensitivity is due to leakage.....  and therefore in a situation which the hole is not deep, dentine bonding adhesive is the best way to deal with it.....  We do use CaOh2 in other patient when its deep and nerve has exposed... but not at LZ case....   I have attached some other methods which has been published and currently using by different dentists around the world....


Gordon J. Christensen, DDS, MSD, PhD
In this monthly feature, Dr. Gordon Christensen addresses the most frequently asked questions from Dental Economics® readers. If you would like to submit a question to Dr. Christensen, please send an email to info@pccdental.com.
Resin-Modified Glass Ionomer vs. Flowable as a Liner or Base
Q  I’m perplexed by the changing use of liners and bases under restorations, both direct and indirect. Some speakers and authors are promoting use of flowable resin-based composites as liners under composites. However, some advocate resin-modified glass ionomer (RMGI), some are using calcium hydroxide, and others are using some new regenerative materials. What is currently the best material to use when bases or liners are necessary?
A  There are many choices for bases and liners, and it is interesting that most of them work well if placed correctly. However, dentists tell me that patients complain about postoperative tooth sensitivity related to placement of both direct and indirect resin and ceramic, as well as with amalgam.
There are various reasons for use of a base or liner for direct and indirect restorations. Among them are:
Prevention of postoperative tooth sensitivity
Capping a slight pulp exposure
Stimulation of new dentin formation under the restoration (indirect pulp capping)
Assisting putty viscosity, fully filled resin-based composite to go into undercuts and marginal areas when placing composite resin directly, especially in Class II box forms
As with any clinical procedure, many techniques will work. If you’re satisfied with the clinical results you’re experiencing with the base and liner techniques you’re using, I suggest not changing. On the other hand, if you’re experiencing challenges and failures with your current technique, I have some suggestions.
The most popular materials currently used for liners and bases are:
Resin-modified glass ionomer (examples are 3M ESPE Vitrebond Plus, GC Fuji Lining Cement LC, and Southern Dental Industries Riva).
Flowable resin-based composite (examples are available from every restorative resin company, and some well-proven and highly filled ones are GC America G-aenial and Shofu Beautifil Flow Plus).
Calcium hydroxide (examples are Dentsply Caulk Dycal and Kerr Life).
Bonding agents (examples are available from every restorative resin company, and popular brands include Kuraray Clearfil SE Protect Bond, 3M ESPE Scotchbond Universal, and Kerr OptiBond XTR).
Inorganic chemicals (examples are Dentsply Caulk MTA paste and Bisco TheraCal).
Each of these types of liners or bases has its group of advocates, and all have reported success.

天生天羊

jackylam 发表于 2016-7-4 22:41
护髓 － has a lot of definition and methods.    LZ is complaining we didn't use Calcium Hydroxide  ...

老板好今年已经在您那里贡献了快半万了周日还得去小帅哥那里补门牙。嘴里1/3的牙都在这几个月钻过了。凄凄惨惨戚戚。回个贴还被人欺凌

jackylam

匿名者 发表于 2016-7-1 10:50
好吧   是我比较敏感 也是有原因的

第一 我盆友推荐了一家诊所护髓加补牙 只要170 她在那做了两颗牙 都 ...

LZ,   i think you have misunderstand the whole situation.......

第一 我盆友推荐了一家诊所护髓加补牙 只要170 她在那做了两颗牙 都很成功 所以不是说奥克兰没有护髓  
之前跟他私下对话时 他说他从来不做护髓 天生天羊回复里说奥克兰的牙医基本不做护髓 但有报出护髓的价钱而且还高的离谱  所以我就怀疑是他了

护髓 - normally is done when your nerve is exposed.  i.e. direct pulp capping.....  we only do that when we can see a nerve expose, i.e. see a pin point bleeding of your pulp after cleansing your cavity........ I didn't do ur filling myself, but from the clinical notes, the clinical symptoms, its very unlikely your nerve is exposed n need caoh2 lining.......  

Price varies depends on locations, set up, running cost etc.... it has nothing to do with a clinical decision....  My only point is we will not use CaOH2 lining unless there is a nerve exposure.  We use other way to seal the cavity such as GIC lining, Dentine bonding adhesive etc.  I don't know why you will get the impression we don't use lining....... what i meant to you is you do not need Calcium Hydroxide Lining....

第二 他04年注册的小号 12年 最起码也是元老了 请看下他的等级 我不懂这种好心好意的吐槽为什么要用小号 可以说他不经常逛skykiwi， 但是偏偏这时候回帖一个接一个 只能说太巧合了。

重申： 我只有這號。。。。。。不要以大人之心，度小人之腹。。。。。 希望你明白，有人不同意你的看法，那人也不一定是我 。。。。。

第三 因为我跟他就我牙齿问题接触过 在他还没了解情况的时候他就一个劲儿得说“牙医做的没错”  所以我看到那个回复有相同字眼 就敏感了
第四 在第二次找他 他没有给我fix  诊断为 接触点过高 准备打磨我其他好牙的牙釉质 被我拒绝了 因为我自己的牙齿咬合是正常的不存在没有打磨好的问题。。。 然后他提出 那只能做牙套。。。这里 科普一下 做牙套只能是牙神经坏死 才能做牙套。 我觉得这两种解决方案互相矛盾  所以晚上经过我自己的search后告诉他是没有护髓的问题  他表现得很激动。。。。 已经跟我长篇大论过了 并且一再强调奥塔哥的学术权威 还有他不做护髓 我也没有必要做。虽然他提出可以帮我重新filling但是我觉得这样的refill没有任何意义

唉。。。。 我和你聊的時候，你說你因為他叫你等一下，你還是疼，你覺得他騙你，你還把他拉黑 。。。。。我笑著和你說。。。。你拉黑他好像有點不必要吧。。。。。 洞沒有很深， Tapping 又不痛 （排除了Abscess), Hot and Cold is not sensitiive (排除了 bonding failure),  only feel pressure during biting, but when not biting hard you don't feel pain, it COULD Be, 我說可能是 cracked cusp syndrome (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cracked_tooth_syndrome）可能要 牙冠 crown (你說的科普 做牙套只能是牙神经坏死 才能做牙套， 是不正確的，很多情形需要牙冠  i.e. Cracked_tooth_syndrome   pls refer to wiki or google.....）。。。。 我把所有的可能也有告訴你，這是我們的 Informed consent.........  你的咬合可能導致你的敏感。。。。  ｀Occlusal problems are very common, particularly after recent restorative procedures (crowns and fillings), and most often present as sensitive to cold, air, and biting down. Occlusal adjustment will frequently reverse this type of inflammation.  you can read the full article at －  http://www.dentaleconomics.com/a ... ontic-disaster.html｀

已经跟我长篇大论过了 - 我只是希望把我們讀了五年的書，用15分鐘去讓你明白這課題。。。。。

并且一再强调奥塔哥的学术权威 还有他不做护髓 我也没有必要做  －。。。。。。我强调的是，現在我同事用的是3M UniversalBonding system， 是在不深的situation下的做法，我看不到沒有理由要用 CaOH2 lining...... 我也把它的利害告訴你了。。。。 我們护髓當然做， 只是你的情形我同事按你的情形沒有做，我也真心覺得不需要。。。。因為你的symptom與這個無關。。。。。 你沒有 Hot and Cold sensitvity, means, no bonding or leaking problem of the filling..... sensitive to pressure is more due to occlusion problem... just telling you the truth only......... To redo the filling is to eliminate your fear, and we try to reseal the tooth again as you wish..... if you want to put a certain lining....we can do it.....doesn't cost us anything..... i can put it in if you want to... especially if you will feel happier.........  but you didn't discuss your concern and start blaming my staff and myself........  and make it one way traffic.......   its quite unfair......   Every case every patient, every tooth and every circumstances are different.... how can we come to sky kiwi and explain every clinical steps and decisions for every patient......  I don't mind explain... as i have already explained to you once.... i don't mind give a public educational lectures on a certain topic as well..... but we are trying to help.... since day one and last consultation, I am trying to let you know that's the normal standard operation for a filling of your size and if it hasn't got nerve exposure, we don't need to use CaOH2 Lining material........ and i told you all the possibility, all the options and all possible outcome..... As a dentist, as a boss, as a company director..... I have offered to help for free to try to keep my clients happy.... I have asked to if after a week or two if still not right.... I will followed up myself, so i can see how i can make your tooth feel better..... That's the long conversation about...

第五 13年确实能能看到他大号的身影 但是现在你还能看到么？ 而且后来我看到一个帖子有一群人抱怨 但是他都没有正面回复。。。

如果你可以告訴我哪裡有一群人抱怨， 讓我可以去看看事。。。 我沒有上來很久了。。。。 謝謝你

第六 我的牙齿拍片时 很乐观 就是不及一毫米的小洞 仅存在于表面 科普一下 牙釉质3毫米厚 然后是牙本质 最里面是牙髓  所以是补牙过程中他伤及到我的牙髓的。 这点我觉得他自己很清楚 如果他当时承认是没做护髓的原因 那就是承认他们的医疗事故。

http://www.answers.com/Q/What_th ... and_enamel?#slide=2

Enamel thickness varies between 1.5 to 2.5 mm,  and dentine varies from 3mm to 10 mm......  total thickness varies between 4.5 to 12.5 mm    the bigger the tooth, n closer to the occlusal surface, normally its a thicker as well.....  LZ 's tooth is a Molar,  therefore you will be closer to the 9-10 mm depth... instead of the 5mm you have quoted.....   

為什麼牙醫那麼難，那麼貴， 因為我們只有 數毫米去 工作。。。  我們 everytime has to be very focus to work on a tooth....to try to save extra half a mm of tooth for our patient...... 唉。。。。。

If you have to keep on thinking he drill to your nerve.... i am speechless....  all i can say is.... if you really have a toothache.... u know what's a nerve pain is all about....... your current situation is due to biting..... only trigger by a stimulus which is pressure..... its still very early stage and we can step by step to sort out your problem.... but i don't know why you react in such manner and keep imagining we are trying to make you suffer......

jackylam

无色咖啡 发表于 2016-7-1 10:52
smile dental...我觉得lz缺乏沟通吧，可以把你的情况和jacky谈谈，毕竟他们顾客很多，有时医生也会判断失误 ...

Thank you for your support!

Once again, i believe every university graduate need to have somewhere to start... its social and corporate responsibility..... All i can see is new graduate use their heart to treat every patient, they have the latest knowledge and skills and technics.    They want to learn and they don't want to make mistakes, so they will take extra care to our patient...... They don't push to their limits, they treasure their chance to work in private, so they do their best every single mins in order to keep their job and also keep building their experiences.  I believe the best dentists in the whole universe.... he or she, also start with a job and work as a new graduate and gradually learn from seniors and as they work they become a better person and better dentist.....  Its same as pilot, same as doctor, same as police same as chef, same as a mum, same as any occupation in the world.... we all got to start somewhere..... And Smile Dental is willing to help the young one and mentor them and make them a better person better dentist.....  It has nothing to do with our management..... We have many senior dentist..... and therefore we are more than capable to mentor the juniors and help them to start their career after university.....   I hope all readers understand.... we want to help more people, not only patients, but also my fellow Otago Uni graduates as well......

jackylam

jamienz 发表于 2016-7-1 11:13
楼主的文笔很好滴，赞一个！在新西兰，不光好的牙医难找，builder, doctor, lawyer, 所有的trades man,  什 ...

We didn't do that!!!!!!!  We discussed cost before we started.... and we only charge her 35 for the x ray..... i checked and double checked.... but LZ keep saying we charge her 40......... due to medical legal reason, i can't post her details n invoice.... but LZ we can print you the full invoice again, so u can check and don't blame us overcharge you 5 dollars.............  we didn't do that.......

jackylam

蓝山小野猫商铺 发表于 2016-7-1 11:35
我能理解你的牙齿的问题 让你非常的痛苦。。。

但是你在没有任何证据的情况底下 就这样指鹿为马 说别人 ...

thanks .... sorry to get you in trouble.....

jackylam

hkw516 发表于 2016-7-1 11:55
我坚决支持楼主把这种不负责的牙医告到倒闭为止！！！

楼主加油，绝对不能就这么算了，要坚强，要坚持

hi,  she only came to see my staff once...... from memory, they had a conversation and my staff ask her to see how the situation goes and if still doesn't improve, we wish her to come back so we can find out what's the problem....

She came to see me, and i have tried to explained to her what could had happened.... (cos i didn't actually do it... i can only look at the x ray, look at the clinical record, and from my experiences to try to put it together)

I offered her for a redo if necessarily, after the last consultation..........  We had a mis-communication in we chat and i shown her another tooth which is much deeper, and if the tooth hasn't exposed the nerve, we don't need that CaOh2 lining......  I just try to make her understand.......

I don't know what else she wants to do...........  i have offered to help, offered redo , (but honestly.... i don't see my staff has made any mistakes.... everyone, every tooth reacts to treatment differently, we are trying step by step way to resolve the problem, but instead of solving the problem, she want to solve it in sky kiwi...) .... if you still think we are 不负责的牙医....  i can only respect your view point... but we are not irresponsible

jackylam

匿名者 发表于 2016-7-1 12:10
我觉得里好的牙医是有的 也不可能每次都有医疗问题 不然早倒闭了  偶尔那么一次被我撞上了  我承认我自己 ...

如果我給你包庇员工的态度太明显， 用奥塔哥的牌子去打压别人的理论  让你很反感

我在這裡向你 道歉， 我只是旁觀的，我只是按實話實說。。。。。我想嘗試讓你明白，你覺得我包庇员工， 只想告訴你Caoh2 lining 不是用在你的情方，( please refer one of the link i post tonight talking about different type of lining)  but if you want to use it, we can put in during your redo appointment.....

I have already offered to try to help you to redo your filling.... and you keep thinking your own way...

我重申強調。。。。。。 一人做事一人當！  我可以放下自己對你說對不起，但我不能在我真心覺得我的員工沒有錯的時候，為了息事寧人，要他成為犧牲品, 代對你說對不起， 。。。。 這是原則問題。。。......   I can do free treatment for you, i can even do a free crown for you, but i can't let my staff down and say he is at fault if he hasn't done anything wrong......   Sorry.....

jackylam

Ruby@PN 发表于 2016-7-1 13:13
楼主可否私信我你去的哪一家连锁牙医？

我正需要找牙医去补牙，我不想去到你去的那家。。。 谢谢啦 ...

我們家，  smile dental.

jackylam

biebieboubou 发表于 2016-7-1 18:22
没去过这家诊所看过牙，技术怎样不知道。但是价格真的比市场价低很多的。家门口的牙医诊所拍个片医生看一下 ...

真的很冤。。。。。。。

jackylam

NewLynnHse 发表于 2016-7-4 20:47
why oh why, why are people always complaining about you and your staff? you better do something ab ...

well， i am not good looking for start.... secondly..... if you have one clinic n one dentist, you see 10 patient a day, u can possibly have 1 patient complaint in a month. ... we have 11 clinics a day, some clinics with 3 chairs, we operate 17 chairs a day, we see 170 patients a day, if ratio is standard.... we will have 17 complaints a month..........

ai......  i was only trying to help..... i wasn't even involved in the case.....  i was just telling her what had happened, what could be the reasons, what can be done, how can be done, and what's the next step and if still sore i offer redo..... and then i am shot because i tried to explain it clearly.....and tell her in her particular situation, she doesn't need this.....  if she want... she can have that next time.... but i need to tell her the truth.... she doesn't need that...... cos her nerve hasn't exposed..... aiiiiii

jackylam

天生天羊 发表于 2016-7-4 22:57
老板好今年已经在您那里贡献了快半万了周日还得去小帅哥那里补门牙。嘴里1/3的牙都在这几个月钻 ...

i m sorry......... i only knew about this today.... and i wish i didn't give second opinion at all......  I got myself in trouble because trying to help....

I used 4 fours in here try to type and send proper links,  i can say Sorry for myself.... but i can't say my staff is at fault if he hasn't done anything wrong according to our learning from the University...... there are so many lining methods, so many material, but using Calcium Hydroxide is only warrant if tooth has a pin point nerve exposure and very deep!   from the x ray and clinical symptoms, she doesn't need Caoh2 lining.... i was trying to explain it clear.... but she doesn't seems to understand it..... if there is a lining problem.... she should have temperature sensitivity.... and if there is close to nerve and nerve is inflammed.... she should have tenderness to percussion....  but she hasn't got both of them.... so it means the filling has sealed well..... one of the possiblity is occlusal force and she doesn't want to do any adjustment.......  i offer redo, and she refuse and said i have an attitude problem......   I didn't........   

I can say sorry here to her.....  but i can't say sorry for my staff.... cos he did nothing wrong...... he follow procedures correctly and from clinical signs, he has done reasonably good job...... so i can't say sorry for my staff.......

jackylam

LZ  如果我爸爸媽媽給的臉不好看，我的解釋了二十年的牙不能向你解釋得不清楚， 我的態度沒有到達你的標準， 我在這裡公開再向你道歉，說一聲 對不起。。。。

如果你有什麼想法，你一直有我微信的，我們可以按公司正常投訴渠道去處理，我們樂意為你安排一切合理的方案。

謝謝你！

jackylam

還有

虽然他承诺如果过段时间我牙齿还是不好 可以找他重新filling 但是因为后来跟他私下交涉时的一段对话 让我很不舒服  我还是决定放弃 换一家诊所。 （If anyone has done communication before, we all know that in a communication, words such as typing can be mis-represented, as words only carry 30% of the communication, without facial expression, eyes contacts, body languages, you can mis-interpret the true meaning of any converstaion.....

另外我发现之前那个给我就诊的牙医 跟我糊乱报价 但是他们给我的invoice 上居然没有收费的detail！ 实事求是 他们家X-ray 35刀 小哥跟我报价是40刀 。。。。
一个牙齿filling， two sides 外加两张X-ray 320刀 是不是比市场加贵很多(PS 奥塔哥刚毕业的小哥操刀 一年的经验）

The one you have received is a printed receipt for payment...... its not the invoice, we can reprint the invoice again for you anyway......   There are difference between invoice and receipt... if you don't trust me, you can ask your friends who do accounting....   anyway.... a standard 2 surface white composite _ we use 3M productions all the way ( Composite and also Scotchbond Universal)  we charge $250 -  its very standard in the market, we are not the cheapest and certainly not most expensive.  we have discussed pricing and cost before treatment started.  so you are fully aware who is doing the treatment and how much its going to charge.    X rays is 35 dollars each.... for a standard exam and bite wings, we don't charge examination fee anyway..... its $70 dollars,  so $70 + $250 = $320  If you compare to other dentist, for exam, 2 x rays and a 2 surface composite filling, I will say we are not overpriced at all

NewLynnHse

jackylam 发表于 2016-7-5 01:02
well， i am not good looking for start.... secondly..... if you have one clinic n one dentist, you ...

有些客人很难伺候的，不管你怎么做，他们都会不爽的，因为对他们来说有钱就是爷。。。哈哈

这个不是你长得好不好看的问题，是这些人的心理有多黑暗的问题。。。哈哈哈哈

Yip

蓝山小野猫商铺 发表于 2016-7-1 11:35
我能理解你的牙齿的问题 让你非常的痛苦。。。

但是你在没有任何证据的情况底下 就这样指鹿为马 说别人 ...

其实他了解的, 因为他太太是上海人, 他经常和太太去上海

Eastpark

jackylam 发表于 2016-7-5 01:37
還有

虽然他承诺如果过段时间我牙齿还是不好 可以找他重新filling 但是因为后来跟他私下交涉时的一段对话  ...

刚看帖子还以为是我老婆上来抱怨，后来发现时间和文笔不对。看来有她这样遭遇的不止一个人。

Jacky 我老婆最近也是在你的口腔诊所看牙，看过两次（后面一次是你亲自看的），但是回家后一直抱怨牙疼，连花生这样的坚果也不敢吃，疼痛已经超过两个月了。希望一周后再去看时，你能体量一下她的心情，争取早点治好。

请你费心了！

jackylam

Eastpark 发表于 2016-7-11 00:50
刚看帖子还以为是我老婆上来抱怨，后来发现时间和文笔不对。看来有她这样遭遇的不止一个人。

Jacky 我老 ...

Hi,

Please.... PM me and make an appointment and i will check and follow up for her!

add me 2246835551

who-who

花二千刀去看专家就为了保全一颗真牙的我表示很受伤

qyli0122

我大概两周以前也在这家补牙。
补了之后补过的牙齿明显高出其他牙齿，咬合痛。
调整了两次之后，补过的位置还是很痛，对冷热不敏感，但是不能吃东西，只要有压力就会痛。
跟LZ的情况差不多。

还是回国吧

jackylam 发表于 2016-7-4 21:45
She is complaining about me and my staff =)

Mate, I think there's a new complain.
XX牙诊所，牙工具file断牙里，取不出来了，悲催了
http://bbs.skykiwi.com/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=3871336

masterq

还是回国吧 发表于 2020-1-20 21:48
Mate, I think there's a new complain.

                     

还是回国吧

masterq 发表于 2020-1-20 21:49

我是好人，看到Jacky有麻烦，赶紧跟他说，让他有机会上来解释一下。