完胜！！！我和保险公司的战争 （最后更新6月6号）

钢琴家未眠

reminness1234 发表于 2017-4-29 18:45
亲，就是5千个毛利人而已。。。。
多买几个eftpos机子就挣回来了。。。。

好 你买十台 我就不告了

dongyulbibo

楼主加油， 事在人为， 希望你能打赢这场官司！

Jackpot

楼主加油， 事在人为， 希望你能打赢这场官司！

jackpan8807

讲这么多，总结起来并不难。
你所说的情况 保险业里应叫grace period。 这个时间长短可能不同（ 依据 不同险种，公司等等）
个人感觉 比较合理应该是30天 （但也有15天的）。  某些保险合同甚至规定 过了grace period, 你的保险可能在没有written notice情况下被撤销。。 说白了 你还是要问清你自己保险具体条款，如果没有写明，也要t据理力争呀 （overdue不到一个月就取消确实太损）

rachel21107

可以争取。个人觉得取消，客户需要清楚同意。

sinnel

支持楼主。希望楼主不要放弃!

nittyst

看了一下这个case，猜测是ami？
找了ami的content insurance的条款，保险公司中止保单权利部分摘录如下：
We can cancel your policy by writing to or emailing you at the last known address we have for you.
The policy will be cancelled on the 14th working day after the date of the notice. If this happens, we
will refund the unused part of your premium.

问题来了：是否收到中止保单的邮件或者信件，明确说明要中止并且满足14天notice义务。如果有，没啥可说的。如果没有，加油吧。

diu_hk

It is definitely LZ's fault, its your responsibility to have sufficient money in the bank for the direct debit payment to go through. AMI already texted you or mailed you about this but you chose to ignore this and they cancelled your policy after 28 days. What's wrong with this?

P8

你说的 “我有理由怀疑，不主动通知投保人保单取消的风险，也许是他们降低赔付率的政策之一。这个是否合理合法？” 应该不合理， 保费是他们主要的收入来源，不提醒你，那就收不到保费，他们不可能提前知道你要CLAIM。每个公司应该都可以指定自己的政策，不过我感觉你还是有希望的，要证明他们没有尽力联系你。

nittyst

diu_hk 发表于 2017-5-4 20:20
It is definitely LZ's fault, its your responsibility to have sufficient money in the bank for the di ...

I don't agree with you.
According to the policy wording,there is no term of 28 days notice or cancellation of delay payment.They should notice LZ about cancellation clearly with 14 days in advance.

robertya

关注中，继续等待更新。

创可贴

楼主加油！我是真的觉得ami还不错，所以现在自己卖着vero的保险，我自己都没换保险公司。从2002年开始理赔过3次，每次理赔都感动到想哭，前年住henderson的时候家里除了沙发床全搬走了。。还有餐桌。。连床头柜跟牙刷都拿走了。。cliam的人第二天上门到最后钱进账户一共两周，保了7万，理赔了6万2。其中一件衣服，一共找到一个照片，就一只袖子在里面，什么都看不出来，直接就是按照原价3000赔的。。

nzrover

You must pay your insurance premium by the date stated on the payment notice. You cannot make a claim until you have paid your premium. If you do not pay your premium your policy will cease
to operate. 以上是摘录AMI 财产保险里的。 看样子是不付钱，就不给理赔。除非把钱付了。

钢琴家未眠

jackpan8807 发表于 2017-4-29 22:46
讲这么多，总结起来并不难。
你所说的情况 保险业里应叫grace period。 这个时间长短可能不同（ 依据 不同 ...

谢谢您的回复。AXX在合同内并没有注明grace period, 但是它的姊妹公司State是在合同中注明了有28天的grace period，而AXX员工也是这么说的，只是在书面上没有这么写。

您是业内人士？

钢琴家未眠

nittyst 发表于 2017-5-4 11:03
看了一下这个case，猜测是ami？
找了ami的content insurance的条款，保险公司中止保单权利部分摘录如下：
W ...

猜测正确，收到一张payment failed之后的reminder notice - AXX说这个就是cancellation notice, 但比较公平的说，根据它的内容判断，并不是，这个可能是将来法庭上争论的主要点之一。

钢琴家未眠

nzrover 发表于 2017-5-7 02:00
You must pay your insurance premium by the date stated on the payment notice. You cannot make a clai ...

我付了 就是晚了4周 LOL

NewLynnHse

买保险就只能当孙子了，没办法。有些保险是不能不买，所以我能不买的就不买。保险公司都是很黑暗的。。。哈哈，很多人还不相信我说的。

nittyst

钢琴家未眠 发表于 2017-5-22 21:32
猜测正确，收到一张payment failed之后的reminder notice - AXX说这个就是cancellation notice, 但比较公 ...

是的。但是我觉得保险公司站不住脚。因为没有明确说明不交就cancel

钢琴家未眠

NewLynnHse 发表于 2017-5-22 21:51
买保险就只能当孙子了，没办法。有些保险是不能不买，所以我能不买的就不买。保险公司都是很黑暗的。。。哈 ...

鼠哥，这次我是真的看到了黑暗的一面，并且还要继续探索它的黑 哈哈

masterq

其實樓主更新的是過程，并不意外，也不太感興趣，期待你更新最後的處理结果，我也希望你有一個好的结局。

钢琴家未眠

masterq 发表于 2017-5-23 00:52
其實樓主更新的是過程，并不意外，也不太感興趣，期待你更新最後的處理结果，我也希望你有一個好的结局。 ...

谢谢 我尽量在有重要进展的时候再更新 这个官司可能需要3 - 6个月时间解决 除非保险公司中途退让

NZ的警察就是混饭吃的职业，告知了他们PlayStation和Smart TV是可以追踪的（并且网上有很多成功案例），只需他们花几分钟向Sony报备，一旦这些设备上线，Sony就能向警方提供它们上网的IP地址。警方在电话里十分赞同我的观点，然后发了一封信说：对不起，由于没有足够的证据（没有在我家找到可疑的指纹），我们决定不继续调查。除了“祝你们抓超速抓的愉快”，我还能说些什么？

这段话,很好的概括"新西兰警察"的形象

钢琴家未眠

过去5周和AXX保险公司的邮件对话。顺序为从新到旧。篇幅较长，慎入。

我:

Thanks for the updates.

Could you please clarity the information in your e-mail?

Did you mean letter A was sent on 31 March, and letters B and C were sent on 26th and 27th April respectively?

•        Letter A: “As above, on the 30th of March 2017 a letter was sent to you advising your payment did go through and that you policy would be cancelled.”
•        Letter B: “On the 22nd of April 2017 a letter was sent to you confirming that you policy had cancelled as your premium had not been paid. “
•        Letter C: “In regards to your attached letter relates to the incorrect reinstatement of your policy CXXXXXXXXX on the 23/4/2017 . Which was cancelled and re written under policy number CXXXXXXXXX  on the 24/4/2017.”

-

AXX保险公司:

We have heard back from NZ Post.   

The letters were sent on 26th & 27th of April.  The resweep letter was sent on 31st of March.

-

AXX保险公司:


I am just waiting for our technical people to confirm this with me.

As soon as they do I will email you.

-

我:

How have you been?

Just checking if you have had a chance to confirm the dates the letters in question were mailed out to me?

-

我:

Thanks for the clarification.

Is it possible at all for you to confirm the dates these letters were mailed out to me?

According to the “changing or ending your policy” section you quoted, it is the posted dates which matters to my case.

-

AXX保险公司:

I can confirm that the letters were printed in our system and on 30th of March 2017 and the 23rd of April 2017.

In regards to your attached letter relates to the incorrect reinstatement of your policy CXXXXXXXXX on the 23/4/2017 . Which was cancelled and re written under policy number CXXXXXXXXX  on the 24/4/2017.

-

我:

Good morning.

Thanks for your detailed explanations. I appreciate your time and effort in resolving my enquiry.

Could you please clarity some information in your e-mail?

You mentioned 2 letters as below, sent to me on 30th Mar and 22nd Apr respectively. Could you please clarify whether these dates refer to the dates these letters were generated in your computer system and subject to be posted to the customer, or the dates they were actually posted to the customer?

•        Letter A: “As above, on the 30th of March 2017 a letter was sent to you advising your payment did go through and that you policy would be cancelled.”
•        Letter B: “On the 22nd of April 2017 a letter was sent to you confirming that you policy had cancelled as your premium had not been paid. “

In addition, I also received a third letter (Letter C) from AXX dated 24th March. Both letter B and C were for the purpose of confirming the cancellation of my policy, but in different details. They both arrived in my mailbox on 2nd May. Please find attached a copy of the letter in question.

Could you please find out for me the story behind Letter C?

These are the last pieces of information I need from you. I look forward to your reply.

-

AXX保险公司:

Thank you for your email and your patience while we investigated the situation regarding your cancelled contents policy.  I have provided answers to your questions below:

1, is my current insurance policy with AXX set up correctly in regards to direct debit payments with my updated credit card details?

•        I can confirm that your policy is set up correctly for monthly direct debit payments and your updated card details have been loaded onto our system.

2, according to the attached New Policy Correspondence dated 25 Jan 2017, I was contracted for a premium for the period of 25/01/2017 - 25/01/2018, subject to be paid in 12 instalments.

•        I can confirm that the cover under your policy was underwritten from the 25th of January 2017 through to the 25th of January 2018 and that this was to be paid by 12 monthly instalments.

What are the standard procedures when AXX decides to cancel a customer’s insurance policy? Is the customer expected to receive a cancellation notice in advance of the actual cancellation?

•        If the monthly instalments are not paid by their due date then notification is sent to you in writing to advise that your policy is overdue and that your policy will cancel if the payment is not made.
•        A letter was sent to you on the 30th of March 2017 advising that your payment did not go through and that another attempt to take the payment from your account would occur on the 8th of April 2017 and if the payment was not sorted, then you policy would automatically be cancelled.
•        It is my understanding from our previous discussions that you did receive this letter, but unfortunately it was put aside and you did not check to ensure that the payment went through or contact AXX to advise of your updated card details.

3, what kind of communications (e.g. letters, e-mails) were involved in my case when AXX ended my policy on 22 Apr 2017?

•        As above, on the 30th of March 2017 a letter was sent to you advising your payment did go through and that you policy would be cancelled.
•        On the 22nd of April 2017 a letter was sent to you confirming that you policy had cancelled as your premium had not been paid.

In addition, AXX sales team reckons the bill (for the payment I missed on 25 March) was sent through to me twice, on 11th March, and again on 11th April. I do not have a record of them. Could you please find out for me whether these documents were sent to me by mail or e-mail?

•        At the time that the policy was originally underwritten on the 25th of January 2017 a copy of the policy documents was sent to you by email as requested.  The documents included an instalment schedule which provided a list of your monthly payments and their corresponding due dates.
•        A bill for the monthly payment was not sent to you on the 11th of March 2017 and the 11th of April 2017, as you pay by automatic payment so the monthly bills do not need to be sent to you and are suppressed by our computer system.
•        A letter was sent to you on the 30th of March 2017 advising that the payment was overdue and that your policy would cancel if the payment was not sorted.

4, when I signed up with AXX, I specified “e-mail” as the preferred communication method. However, I never received billing e-mails from AXX.

Could you please find out for me whether my account is set up correctly for e-mail notifications?

•        You account is set up for email.  This only applies to annual renewal documents.  All other correspondence is by post.  I also confirm that as your policy is set up for direct debit payments that you will not receive a bill each month.

5, what sort of business rules were followed when determining that my policy lapsed on 22 Apr 2017?

•        Your monthly premium due for payment on the 25th of March 2017 was declined by your bank.
•        On the 30th of April 2017 AXX wrote to you and advised that the payment did not go through and that another attempt would be made to take the payment on the 8th of April 2017.  (This letter also advised that your policy would cancel if the payment was not sorted).
•        As the 8th of April 2017 was a Saturday, the payment was taken on Monday the 10th of April 2017 and again declined.
•        On the 22nd of April 2017 your policy cancelled as the payment had not been made.
•        As per your Premier Contents policy, AXX is able to cancel your policy by proving 14 working days notice as per the “changing or ending your policy” section of the policy on page 8 and I refer to “3 Ending your policy” as outlined below:



I hope this clarifies the situation for you.

-

我:

Thanks for your reply.

I think you might have misunderstood my request.

As mentioned in my previous e-mail, I understand your position on this matter and the purpose of my e-mail is not to change your decision on my claim.

I am after some information around my policy. Under Claude 31 of Fair Insurance Code 2016 (see attached) that AXX abides by, I am within my right to access the information you relied on in evaluating my claim.  

Could you please answer my questions 1 – 5, to your best knowledge?

I have been requesting these information from AXX for three weeks, and you are recommended by both XXXX and XXXXX as the most qualified senior consultant to help me with these questions. I am hoping that you are my last stop.

-

AXX保险公司:


I have tried to call you regarding your cancelled policy.

Unfortunately as previously discussed we are unable to lodge a claim for you as your policy was cancelled due to non payment.

We sent you a letter which you advised that you received however we received no payment or correspondence from you so the policy was cancelled.

I am sorry for your situation.  I can assure you that we have looked into this thoroughly.  Your policy was cancelled before the time of your burglary leaving you with no cover.

-

我:

How are you?

Thanks again for trying to reach me on the phone this morning.

I am after some information around my insurance policy with AXX. My original e-mail enquiry was sent through to XXXX on 26th April, then forwarded to XXXX. My understanding is that my enquiry is now passed onto you (please correct me if I understood this wrong).  

I would like to receive an e-mail response to my questions below from AXX’s sales team – I hope this is a reasonable request.

RE: Questions from an Unfortunate Customer | Customer Reference: XXXXXXX

Dear AXX Sales Team,

Thanks again for taking the time to look at my enquiry.

My story was simple and unfortunate: I was trying to lodge a claim with AXX for a burglary happened in my flat at the address XXXXXXX, on 22nd April. After a series of communications with AXX over the next 48 hours, AXX concluded that my insurance policy lapsed on 22nd Apr due to non-payment the previous month, and this event would not be covered.

I understand AXX’s position on my case. At this stage, I am hoping that you may help me understand my policy and the reason for refusing the claim. According to Claud 31 of Fair Insurance Code 2016, this is my right.

My questions:

1, is my current insurance policy with AXX set up correctly in regards to direct debit payments with my updated credit card details?

2, according to the attached New Policy Correspondence dated 25 Jan 2017, I was contracted for a premium for the period of 25/01/2017 - 25/01/2018, subject to be paid in 12 instalments.

What are the standard procedures when AXX decides to cancel a customer’s insurance policy? Is the customer expected to receive a cancellation notice in advance of the actual cancellation?

3, what kind of communications (e.g. letters, e-mails) were involved in my case when AXX ended my policy on 22 Apr 2017?

In addition, AXX sales team reckons the bill (for the payment I missed on 25 March) was sent through to me twice, on 11th March, and again on 11th April. I do not have a record of them. Could you please find out for me whether these documents were sent to me by mail or e-mail?

4, when I signed up with AXX, I specified “e-mail” as the preferred communication method. However, I never received billing e-mails from AXX.

Could you please find out for me whether my account is set up correctly for e-mail notifications?

5, what sort of business rules were followed when determining that my policy lapsed on 22 Apr 2017?

Thanks again for taking the time to read my e-mail. I look forward to your answers.

周二，5月30号 - 重大突破

经过5周和AXX保险公司高级顾问团队的周旋，这个case在进入申诉程序前，出现了一个重要的突破口。

之前提到，根据AXX保险公司的条款，他们有权提前14个工作日写信通知投保人并结束合同。在我的追问下，他们调查和确定了这一封信的发信时间为3月31号，而3月31号之后的14个工作日为4月24号。也就是，在这个条款的效应中，案发当天（4月22号）我的保险仍然是有效的。

现在从法律角度，我有了一个胜诉的依据，就看对方是否愿意用君子之道来处理这个case了。虽然最后很可能还是会走申诉渠道，甚至法律渠道，并和更厉害的boss去较量，但是这个case的胜率，从法理上看应该超过50%了。现在这个case如果开战，我相信也会引起媒体的兴趣 - 据说Fair Go是他们的死对头。
随着对话的深入，对方回复我所需的时间越来越长，态度也不再趾高气昂了，我相信对方已经意识到，这是一个棘手的case。

谢谢你的更新,希望你早日成功解决问题!

nittyst

继续学习。。加油。。我觉得最终应该还是和解。

房奴甲

这个没什么可折腾的，就是时间问题 ，一定能争取下来，保险公司明显理亏。我来这边这些年买过各种保险无数，还没遇到过这种情况。Miss payment是个很容易发生的普通小事故。

ryb

精神上支持樓主
希望你能成功得到賠償

另外警察不肯追尋ps這條線索, 完全就是不想管............真的

38.1℃

战争因楼主而起。 祝你好运

lonysteven

14天不应该是4月14号？

Hello_Judyyy

加油LZ，感觉你胜利在即了