穷人，富人，高收入，低收入，到底谁交的税多？

love_3_month

自翻。。。。。。。

love_3_month

现代公司的员工成本越来越高，最后导致国家范围内个人税超过公司税，这是很正常的事

Tomm

楼主心里比较的是交税的金额，而不是交税的税率吧，微软比尔盖茨即使交0.01%的税，也比穷人20%税率交得多，你是这个意思吧？

tianbiandeyun

love_3_month 发表于 2014-8-26 20:50
公司高层算不算打工仔？

老板不交个人税，那就交企业所得税税，税率更高好不好。。。

企业所得税不谈了，gst根据消费来的，是每年赚几万的人消费多还是每年赚十几万几十万的人缴税多？

就GST而言，95.1%的人年收入是在10万以下的。是95.1%的人口消费多，还是4.9%的人口消费多？

love_3_month

tianbiandeyun 发表于 2014-8-27 13:38
企业所得税不谈了，gst根据消费来的，是每年赚几万的人消费多还是每年赚十几万几十万的人缴税多？

就G ...

Did those 5% population used all of the resource of the country? or only their own share?

if you lose that 5% of ppl, country lose way more than 5% of tax, no matter personal income or GST.

love_3_month

Tomm 发表于 2014-8-27 13:30
楼主心里比较的是交税的金额，而不是交税的税率吧，微软比尔盖茨即使交0.01%的税，也比穷人20%税率交得多， ...

both.

the low incom pay very low rate, and very low amount.

天朗气清

love_3_month 发表于 2014-8-27 13:56
Did those 5% population used all of the resource of the country? or only their own share?

if yo ...

you got to be kidding! This planet will revolve as usual without anybody including J.K and so does the taxation! Rest assured buddy!

love_3_month

Tomm 发表于 2014-8-27 13:30
楼主心里比较的是交税的金额，而不是交税的税率吧，微软比尔盖茨即使交0.01%的税，也比穷人20%税率交得多， ...

everyone should pay his "share" of tax to make the country better.

high income ppl paid a higher share. low income paid a lower share. this is what happened.

however, Labour is misleading ppl to think
1. high income ppl don't pay their share
2. it is unfair to give any tax deducion to high income ppl, because they should pay more, and keep pay more. it is only ok to give tax deduction to low income ppl.

天朗气清

love_3_month 发表于 2014-8-27 14:19
everyone should pay his "share" of tax to make the country better.

high income ppl paid a high ...

Considering that the earnings of the rich ppl are mostly made by working ppl, yes rich ppl should pay higher tax, fair and square!

天朗气清

love_3_month 发表于 2014-8-27 12:41
这个国家有多少农场主和股东呢

当然是少数啦，人少钱多啊！政府难道不应该替大多数人考虑吗？那些极少数有极富有的人完全可以出钱雇佣各种各样的人替他们服务，政府再替他们考虑未免有些多余。

天朗气清

love_3_month 发表于 2014-8-27 13:03
现代公司的员工成本越来越高，最后导致国家范围内个人税超过公司税，这是很正常的事

如果是国家财富分流给员工了，那么贫富差距应该是小了？数据好像不是这样吧？

天朗气清

love_3_month 发表于 2014-8-27 12:52
既然这个公司有big loss那是不是应该可以抵税呢，那把它买下来抵税有什么问题啊。。。。

你可以理解 ...

我并没有说这样做有什么问题啊。我只是跟在你之前说故意把东西卖亏然后抵税的帖子后面说了一个更真实的避税方法，而且我用的是避税一词，没有用逃税，tax avoidance。哪句话让你感觉我是”因为没占到便宜所以要打到占到便宜的人“？

love_3_month

天朗气清 发表于 2014-8-27 14:24
Considering that the earnings of the rich ppl are mostly made by working ppl, yes rich ppl should  ...

yes they have already paid higher. Should this be higher and higher and higher?

love_3_month

天朗气清 发表于 2014-8-27 14:29
当然是少数啦，人少钱多啊！政府难道不应该替大多数人考虑吗？那些极少数有极富有的人完全可以出钱雇佣各 ...

should the "majority" take their own responsibility?

most of low income ppl are taking advantage of the high income ppl. i am not saying they should be shamed of that, but should they appreciate that?

devour25

避税是普遍发生的，谁都想多到手些钱。上班族工资倒账的时候paye就扣掉了，所以避税比较难。公司经营的时候因为业务来源复杂，又有要计算成本而得到利润，所以不可能像paye一样控制。这个问题如果好解决早就有人解决了。对了，这时候马克思会跳出来告诉你怎么解决，可惜拿一个mission impossible去solve另一个不是什么好主意。

love_3_month

天朗气清 发表于 2014-8-27 14:46
我并没有说这样做有什么问题啊。我只是跟在你之前说故意把东西卖亏然后抵税的帖子后面说了一个更真实的避 ...

right, so it is reasonable and legal. i agree with you.

this is how smart ppl do things, they will get richer because of their brains, rather than trust labour's blank cheque.

蔻蔻猫

天朗气清 发表于 2014-8-27 12:17
One of the tax evasion methods used by rich people is purchasing companies that have big losses to ...

TAX EVASION是违法的。。。。。不要误导普通群众

devour25

天朗气清 发表于 2014-8-27 14:17
you got to be kidding! This planet will revolve as usual without anybody including J.K and so does ...

He gets the point, you can only say something vague. Of course planet will be as usual without J.K because there will be another person who take the PM seat. The planet will be as usual even without human beings, because human beings never existed in its long usual past of billion years. So stop this crap and try tackle on his point, if you can. His point is those 5% people, including J.K himself if we see him as a person not PM, are using less share of the country's resource than they are contributing. If you can PROVE it wrong, a heavier tax should be placed on them. But I put doubt on you

Not many of those 5% complainted about that, like you said, they thought it is fair and square. Act wants to reduce tax on top earners and business, how much support then have got? Less than 5% for sure.  But question lays once those people, who are contributing less than they use, start to ask those 5% to contribute more. Is it still fair?

天朗气清

love_3_month 发表于 2014-8-27 15:03
right, so it is reasonable and legal. i agree with you.

this is how smart ppl do things, they  ...

Being legal doesn't necessarily mean it's reasonable.

Some ppl are smarter than others and work harder, they deserve better rewards if they contribute more to the society. but do you really believe if a person earns 10 times more than you, it means he is 10 times smarter than you?

天朗气清

devour25 发表于 2014-8-27 15:18
He gets the point, you can only say something vague. Of course planet will be as usual without J ...

I have to turn a blind eye on your rude tone and wording to reply:

You need to prove those 5% people are using less share of the country's resource than they are contributing.

天朗气清

蔻蔻猫 发表于 2014-8-27 15:05
TAX EVASION是违法的。。。。。不要误导普通群众

我又没号称专家或专业人士，在这里只是闲聊，谈不上误导吧？

天朗气清

我到现在也没决定好投票给谁，只是说说想法而已。

企业不论大小，都是在扣除所有与业务相关的支出后按净利润计算税额的。唯独上班族在工资到手之前，不考虑他们的任何支出，就把税扣掉了。工薪族是创造社会财富的主力，又是国家税收的主要来源，一年忙下来退税的可能微乎其微。

这公平吗？

devour25

天朗气清 发表于 2014-8-27 16:02
I have to turn a blind eye on your rude tone and wording to reply:

You need to prove those 5% p ...

Really, did you? I thought you were enjoying it. But that doesn't matter now. About vague, about J.K, about the planet, all of them are the truth, did truth actually embaressed you? My apologize for that, I've been rude to talk with the truth.
and for your second comment, I have proof on they contributed higher share in numbers, check the table provided in this post. Then next, everyone is equal in this country, so now it is your turn to prove those 5% people are using more than the others, remember, in numbers, dont just say the country provided more infrustuctures for those 5%, again that's vague. You need to come back with on average how much more those 5% are using than average from rest of 95%, IN NUMBERS

BTW, if the truth just accidently embrassed you again, please turn a blind eye on it so you wont get hurt

天朗气清

love_3_month 发表于 2014-8-27 15:01
should the "majority" take their own responsibility?

most of low income ppl are taking advanta ...

In a ideal world, everyone should (be able to )take responsibility to look after themselves where a govt is not necessary.

Even in a not-so-perfect world, actually most people do. they go to work 8 hour a day, 5 days a week or longer to make a living, pay tax to feed the government and parliament and keep the public system going.

They are some low income ppl are taking advantage of social welfare, but I don't think they are the "majority".

From your posts I sense that you are a high income earner, I don't know how much higher your earning is over mine, but I am sure you pay your tax, I pay my tax, I don't take any advantage of you whatsoever.

love_3_month

天朗气清 发表于 2014-8-27 16:33
In a ideal world, everyone should (be able to )take responsibility to look after themselves where  ...

我收入不高，但我认为这个国家的少数高收入承担了大部分的国家税收，而不是高收入都避税了，都是中低收入在缴税

love_3_month

天朗气清 发表于 2014-8-27 16:33
In a ideal world, everyone should (be able to )take responsibility to look after themselves where  ...

1.8%人口的人申报收入超过15万，他们交的税占个人所得税的20%左右

所以，要么你认为他们应该承担更多的税收，比如30–40%，要么你认为有更多的150以上的人逃税避税了，这个数字应该翻番，这部分的税收也可以翻番

不知道你是哪种意见

sky-horse

很好的帖子，赞一个！！！

avocadooil

很明显富人/高收入者缴付了更高的税款，但是享受到相对较少的福利。

很多人搞不清楚公司税和个人所得税关系很正常，简单说公司是独立个体，并不能简单说公司就是某个人或者某几个人的。公司税的确低过PAYE的最高征收税率，但是，税后盈利是公司的盈利和个人无关，如果owner要拿到这笔钱，要以分红的模式，而在分红dividend过程中，这笔钱是要被征收RWT也就是和个人PAYE一样的税率，如果以非专业角度讲可以理解为公司赚钱到老板手里被征收两次税。

至于做tax loss用于抵税，发生在Look-through companies里面才可以，而且有非常严格的规定。别把IRD当傻子，也别把整个社会当傻子。

另外说什么富人挣得钱都是剥削穷人之类马列口号之类的，在这个世纪已经成考古学说了。这个国家已经贫富差距够小了和其他国家比起来，剩下的只有人心不足蛇吞象和嫌人富贵憎人穷。

PS: 我只是一个打工的，做会计部门，没有任何生意也不是任何老板。

love_3_month

avocadooil 发表于 2014-8-27 23:06
很明显富人/高收入者缴付了更高的税款，但是享受到相对较少的福利。

很多人搞不清楚公司税和个人所得税关 ...

说的很清楚，不过大多数老百姓，尤其工党支持者，没这么明白。。。。

天朗气清

avocadooil 发表于 2014-8-27 23:06
很明显富人/高收入者缴付了更高的税款，但是享受到相对较少的福利。

很多人搞不清楚公司税和个人所得税关 ...

既然你是做会计工作的，那么你应该知道，分红时征收的RWT是可以在申报个人所得税的时候作为tax credit退回来的，以免双重课税。这一点即使没有做过会计而只是在这边买过股票的人都知道。

至于马克思的剩余价值理论，有人认为它过时了，但它确实说出了一个经得起检验的真理。即使是现在这个时代，要想多赚钱，发大财，大多数人还是认为不能靠给人打工，而是要靠做生意。