谈谈Flat bush的房子

zynzakl

满篇都是”我认为，我相信，我觉得”，既然如此坚持，那就掏钱买呗，非要在论坛这个虚无缥缈的地方说服谁吗？
我写的都是从自己身边的木工水工电工油漆工设计师工程师开发商那里听来的。信不信由你，没什么好讨论的。真心祝愿你能在flatbush买到称心如意的房子。

songinator

zynzakl 发表于 2014-5-26 23:10
flat bush的建筑质量，圈内人都知道。买家入住一年甚至只有几个月之后钢梁移位，地基下沉的事出了也不是一件 ...

这些东西都是有工程师签字的 地基有地质工程师 钢梁有结构工程师
如果真是普遍问题那这些工程师早就全被吊销执照了
也许有这种个别情况 一个区几千个房我相信也就几个是这样的  至少我没听说过
28楼说的挺好 我就不多说了     我相信买房的人都会做building report 哪里的房都一样

至少这个区没有漏水房 dannemora不知道有多少砖房也漏得一塌糊涂的  95到04年发展的区不知道问题比05年以后的多多少
anyway 谢谢您的评论 大家讨论讨论 不懂的地方还请多多指教

jan4victory

我在那里住了两年后来搬到bucklands beach了，不看好flat bush的原因是人文环境。评判一个区的好坏因素有很多，例如自然环境和交通等等都是很重要。Flat Bush我个人觉得高峰已经过去了。具体例子看看Dannemora的过去就知道。Botany Shopping Centre还没造好之前也是疯涨了一轮。等造好以后羊群效应渐渐褪去，趋于稳定了。北岸能一直涨那么快的原因其中一个很重要原因也是人文环境

zynzakl

仅仅今年这几个月，我知道的被Council 列入黑名单不再承认其签字资格的工程师就有六个。
有的工程师为了自保已经拒绝接任何flatbush的工作了。他告诉我，有些人什么事都干得出来，他检查完之后立即把放下去的钢筋拿出来，往地基里面堆沙子甚至泥土好节省水泥。即使他检查的时候拍照为证以后出事也未必脱得了干系，干脆躲开算了。那些开发商还振振有词：我们老家建房没用这么多钢筋水泥，房子一样好好的。
以flatbush那的地形，除非地基下面有bridge 否则是不需要地质工程师签字的。何况我也知道有人敢给自己没有检查过的房子出ps4。
至于是否个别现象，我没有数据，不敢说”我相信，我觉得”如何如何，只能说我认识的圈内人没有在那里买房子的。还是那句话，真心祝愿所有想在那里买房子的人都能买到称心如意的好房子！

beliefto

FlatBush印度人太多，这才是致命的

ctai010

zynzakl 发表于 2014-5-26 23:10
flat bush的建筑质量，圈内人都知道。买家入住一年甚至只有几个月之后钢梁移位，地基下沉的事出了也不是一件 ...

i spoken to a civil structure engineer of mine whom worked on CCC inspection for the past 10 years in Auckland. He do not aware any particular quality problem in Flat Bush area. He did mention that most new houses in Flat Bush have simple design (basically like a square box), and that actually mean the risk profile is low. However I wouldn't dare to say my information represent the whole 'industry' (圈内人).

About  '钢梁移位', that did sound like serious defect and extreme poor workmanship.

However, about 地基, I thought most Chinese builders hire kiwi contractor to build 地基? can anyone shed some light? I could be mistaken.

孔雀东南飞

不能苟同25楼的观点，其实建房看不见的材料标准是一样的，比如框架的木材年轮都是30年，你相年轮低的，谁知道哪里卖吗水泥和钢材质量差的，价钱低哪里卖。不好便宜的都是看的见的

love_3_month

i compared flat bush with hobsonville point 2 years ago.

you can find some good builders in flat bush.

but the biggest concern is the population. Too many indian.

http://bbs.skykiwi.com/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=2028416

ctai010

zynzakl 发表于 2014-5-27 07:40
仅仅今年这几个月，我知道的被Council 列入黑名单不再承认其签字资格的工程师就有六个。
有的工程师为了自 ...

I could be too naive, but I thought fundation work need be done with supervision of LBP?
If council is aware of any misconduct, I'm don't think it's as simple as just 'black list' the involved parties?

(http://www.google.co.nz/url?sa=t ... amp;bvm=bv.67720277,d.dGI)

In addition, many chinese builders sub-contract fundation work to local kiwis anyway? Excavation and foundation require specalised machinary and operation skill that average builder don't normally have?

songinator

ctai010 发表于 2014-5-27 10:43
I could be too naive, but I thought fundation work need be done with supervision of LBP?
If counc ...

I agree. And I believe that before foundation is constructed, geotechnical engineer/technician shall inspect the foundation and perform in-situ testing (i.e. shear vane tests) to verify ground condition as per the design for all houses.

Correct me if i was wrong.

ctai010

zynzakl 发表于 2014-5-27 07:40
仅仅今年这几个月，我知道的被Council 列入黑名单不再承认其签字资格的工程师就有六个。
有的工程师为了自 ...

if I undertand correctly, engineer's on-site inspection is typically just a 1-2 hour viste, so it is possible to fool. But LBP supervision is on-site while the work took place, it will be very hard to fool LBP? unless the LBP knowingly signed-off faulty work, but is it worth the risk to lose the license and face prosecution? just to save some concret material cost?

Don't get me wrong Zynsakl, I am not saying I don't believe you. The information you share is very important (and alarming!). I'm sure lots of people is very interested to information you reveal, I just have some questions, that's all.  

Also, there are some Chinese builders in Flat Bush use high quality interior parts (expensive brands),  which adds hunders (or thousands) dollars more, and it all add up to construction cost.
In fact, the extra cost of one Bosh appliances could be more then all the money saved from concrete / insulation, again, maybe I'm too naive, but if I am cheap enough to use only the worst building material and cut corners on concrete / steel bars, I won't bother to spend extra money to buy top brand appliance and parts?

songinator

ctai010 发表于 2014-5-27 11:49
if I undertand correctly, engineer's on-site inspection is typically just a 1-2 hour viste, so it  ...

some fair comments                           good on you

ctai010

songinator 发表于 2014-5-27 11:57
some fair comments                           good on you

:)

very keen to get to the bottom of this.

zynzakl

至少在flatbush,做地基的主要是华人，而且以包工包料的方式为主。这可以解释为什么有人会刻意减少材料支出。人家不认为有什么风险，这么平的地，设计要求100厚的水泥，浇50难道房子就会倒吗？
至于其他省钱的妙招就不说了，因为开发商把各个分包商的价压的非常低，大家为了赚到合理利润就各显神通了。
某个网友说什么做框架的木头有年轮要求，恕我孤陋寡闻，只知道sg8,h3.2这些要求，不知道年轮是怎么回事。但在普通人看不见的地方省钱对于开发商是很简单的事。这和做足表面功夫好多卖钱一点也不矛盾。
至于保修，很多人是注册一个公司，建一个房子，卖掉后把公司关掉，或者干脆就用国内的某人名字建房，卖掉后钱打回国，既避税又不用承担保修责任。呵呵，多少聪明人啊！

love_3_month

ctai010 发表于 2014-5-27 11:49
if I undertand correctly, engineer's on-site inspection is typically just a 1-2 hour viste, so it  ...

my thoughts re good / cheap materials.

1. some are using cheap material (for building), some are using good staff (for kitchen etc) - they could be different builders?
2. even they happen to be the same builder, it is still possible. Some ppl drive $$$ car but still go cheap vege shop to save several dollars. The Bosh they put can make the house looks nice and "expensive" which will give them good return, but the materials hidden under the floor / wall won't do any benefit at selling.

NewLynnHse

love_3_month 发表于 2014-5-27 12:21
my thoughts re good / cheap materials.

1. some are using cheap material (for building), some a ...

应该是这样吧，比较有心机的，就会做好包装，眼睛看得到的都用比较好的。比较没有心机的，就是在Trademe上看照片就知道房子很cheap。。。对吗？

ctai010

zynzakl 发表于 2014-5-27 12:18
至少在flatbush,做地基的主要是华人，而且以包工包料的方式为主。这可以解释为什么有人会刻意减少材料支出。 ...

Good points, although, isn't the whole point of LBP is to prevent builders cut corners like this? But I have to admit I have no idea what's going on reality, maybe LBP don't give a sh*t, they just sign the paperwork, is it what's happening?

About builders hide behind limited liability of registered company, that actually dont apply if the company's director is personally involved in the construction work. There is many cases in recent years that court rule builders is personaly liable for leaky building.

http://www.lawlink.co.nz/articles.php?articleid=121
New Zealand law imposes a duty on builders and developers to take care to prevent latent defects when building and developing. If defective construction methods lead to a reduction in the value of a home, directors can be held liable if they were actually involved in the building work, supervision or other aspects of control over the building process.

ctai010

love_3_month 发表于 2014-5-27 12:21
my thoughts re good / cheap materials.

1. some are using cheap material (for building), some a ...

good points.

Although from a developer's perspective, spend extra money on appliances and visible part don't guaranty good return. In fact, nobody know if you spend $5k more to buy good appliance, does that nessisarly means the house can sale more? The primary factor for poeple to judge house's value is base on location, land, area, house condition etc...

I think at end of the day, buyers just need to gather as much information as possible and make your own judgement call.

I personally feel it's unwise to categorically assume all house in a area is all build with poor workmanship. It is true that after the house is build, you can't see behind the wall and underneath the floor. I guess at end of the day, you get that you paid for. If you are really concerned, you can buy the houses build by big kiwi companies, but they do cost a lot more than chinese build ones.

love_3_month

ctai010 发表于 2014-5-27 12:50
good points.

Although from a developer's perspective, spend extra money on appliances and visib ...

it is all about risk. even if it is 5% more chance (than normal builders) that the builder may have used cheap material most buyer will give up the house.

songinator

love_3_month 发表于 2014-5-27 13:16
it is all about risk. even if it is 5% more chance (than normal builders) that the builder may hav ...

As far as I know, all the banks are quite smart but their risk assessment team has no concerns for new houses with code compliance certificate.
If they have concerns on new houses they will put in a condition (i.e. LBP appointed by the Bank to inspect the house prior to settlement date to confirm soundness/compliance etc.), if they really think this house or houses in this area will expose them to risks like house losing its value due to non-compliance.

As far as I know, houses built by FLETCHER will typically ask for 50k - 100k more than other houses built by self employed builders.

This is like Holden vs Chery. If you want to choose holder you pay a bit more. If you choose Chery, as long as it can take you to places for less, you are happy.

It is all market economy. All determined by sellers and buyers. If you worry about something unlikely or highly unlikely, pay 100k more to get a Fletcher built one.
BUT http://bbs.skykiwi.com/forum.php ... &extra=page%3D1 same shit will happen

ctai010

songinator 发表于 2014-5-27 13:32
As far as I know, all the banks are quite smart but their risk assessment team has no concerns for ...

wow, what a weird problem from a Fletcher build house!

As far as I know, among the kiwi / main stream community, Flat Bush don't have a reputation of poorly constructed house, however the biggest complaint is crowed house close to each other as all houses go for maximum coverage size, however this is common for all new development site in Auckland. Hobsonvile, Stonefield etc... Not a unique for Flat Bush.

Here's some discussion about Flat Bush among kiwis

http://www.enz.org/forum/showthread.php?t=38246

songinator

ctai010 发表于 2014-5-27 13:58
wow, what a weird problem from a Fletcher build house!

As far as I know, among the kiwi / main  ...

thanks for sharing. can't agree anymore. Not to mention other new suburbs, just look at how many people looking for subdivide 800m2 900m2 land in other old areas?

This is purely because auckland has a shortage for residential housing lands and increasing land cost.

I guess you can surely get a similar fairly new house 5-6 bedrooms with 600m2+ freehold land in other areas for 1m+ easily. So that you dont need to "suffer" from small land?         Just need to compare apple with apple. You cant simply buy a 3m big house with sea view and big land and accuse another house or area got no sea view + small land when another house cost 1/3 of your house price for example?
Again, it is market economy. Limited bugget big family, or 2nd generation billionare, got their own choice to make.

The end.....

新马甸甸

zynzakl 发表于 2014-5-27 12:18
至少在flatbush,做地基的主要是华人，而且以包工包料的方式为主。这可以解释为什么有人会刻意减少材料支出。 ...

同意，不管是在flat bush还是其它地方，我发现炒的越火，地价越高的区，建房质量和用工用料越doggy。地价如果炒的不是太高的，开发商还能心平气和的建房。

fantastic8376

zynzakl 发表于 2014-5-27 12:18
至少在flatbush,做地基的主要是华人，而且以包工包料的方式为主。这可以解释为什么有人会刻意减少材料支出。 ...

看來哥們是行內人了，我自住經歷了幾套房子，都需要大規模裝修，這些年接觸了不少三行人，就是水電木的師傅，他們在幫我做活的時候大家都聊天，都說到這個地區的房子，他們都顯示出不以為然的態度，都就或多或少看不起那些他們的行家，因為在某些工序方面，按照他們的話就是糊弄人，活不是這麼幹的。
這些師傅都是行內有點名氣的人，因為都是大家認識互相推薦的，所以我認為他們的說法是有道理的。

新马甸甸

Flat Bush有真的盖的不错的。也有builder/开发商做的不好的，他们其它地区有工地照样做不好，所以还是要看建的人。

Rw1234

songinator 发表于 2014-5-26 13:26
那边20号和1号都不远   去botany也不远 旁边医院诊所餐馆公园
听说太平分店在那里都要开张了   以后的购物 ...

太平确实已经开张了。今天去MITRE10买东西看到了。就在MITRE10正对面，进去逛了逛，感觉比另外几个分店的档次高了很多。

新马甸甸

Rw1234 发表于 2014-5-28 18:48
太平确实已经开张了。今天去MITRE10买东西看到了。就在MITRE10正对面，进去逛了逛，感觉比另外几个分店的 ...

那个商业地段的开发商本意是建一个档次很高的家居市场，所以商铺的设计和档次都比较高。建成初期几个new market的高档家具家居店店入住，还有油漆店瓷砖店...无奈人气一直不旺，几家店相继撤出，大片的商铺租不出去没有办法了不管谁给钱就租，阳春白雪输给了华人的柴米油盐...一向在仓库里开业的大华开进了档次高的商铺。我一直在想，如果那位开发商能挺到flat bush完全建成，说不定他的雄心会成功。

Rw1234

新马甸甸 发表于 2014-5-28 22:59
那个商业地段的开发商本意是建一个档次很高的家居市场，所以商铺的设计和档次都比较高。建成初期几个new  ...

分析的有道理。太平的这个分店确实和其它店的感觉不同。首先是卫生条件好很多。

我行我素我酷

北岸住了8年，中区也住，综合说，北岸是最堵的地方，尤其那个桥，如果有个下雨天，赌死，早上其实从南边走高速上1号，还好，只有mt wellington赌一会，下午比较好，回来基本不太堵。。因为，中区，西区，南区，东区，都有火车，或者公交，或者不走一号也可以，减轻很大拥挤程度，北岸只有一个桥，都会从哪里走。很显然。

拉德方斯

athean 发表于 2014-5-27 00:30
非常感谢您的回复！很中肯！不过我们可不可以讨论一下以下几个问题
你所说的建筑质量，我不否认有很多， ...

现在的新房质量依然很差，我也有耳闻，那里的房子基本中看不中用

flat bush已经是沿海某省和印度建筑工的天下了，质量在五年内据说都会出问题，中区相对很多洋人MASTER BUILDER，形成了强烈的对比