有在洋人主流公司上班的電腦高手嗎? 想看看有多少擠進主流的高手!

好事之徒

我在117wik 的“反面”
我是做development 的architect (专攻SOA, integration, middleware方面)，we make trouble for infrastructure guys like 117wik :)

不知道怎么才算主流 反正我从来不跟同事凑热闹聊rugby 有时候我不懂他们的一些玩笑 有时候他们也不懂我的一些玩笑 so what? 工作上的事情交流得清楚明了才是硬道理

117wik

原帖由 好事之徒 于 2009-9-11 07:09 发表
我在117wik 的“反面”
我是做development 的architect (专攻SOA, integration, middleware方面)，we make trouble for infrastructure guys like 117wik :)

不知道怎么才算主流 反正我从来不跟同事凑热闹聊rugb ...

same... i almost never hang out with any colleague outside of work, probably been to pub once in the last 10 years with colleague before.. and never been to rugby etc with them either (they did ask initially and gave up at the end). :P

variable

原帖由 雁阵惊寒 于 2009-9-11 00:38 发表


呵呵我之前和一帮人在家打过几次LAN，不过一般都是在GARENA。前段时间BF回国了我就天天打。。现在分手了又可以打了。。我和IT没关系啦。。我是护士~~在奥克兰医院。。

莫非就是HydrA????

向后看的鱼

真热闹这帖子.... 我是IT但是是打杂的...

duncan_kai

原帖由 117wik 于 2009-9-11 08:04 发表


same... i almost never hang out with any colleague outside of work, probably been to pub once in the last 10 years with colleague before.. and never been to rugby etc with them either (they did as ...

这位老兄是gen-i的?还是telecom本部的?以你的工作经验+职位,估计15-20万年薪了.算是IT强人了................

117wik

原帖由 duncan_kai 于 2009-9-11 16:02 发表


这位老兄是gen-i的?还是telecom本部的?以你的工作经验+职位,估计15-20万年薪了.算是IT强人了................

i haven't seen any job in NZ that actually pay more than 12万 yet (unless it's a mid tier management role). I am now part of telecom (used to be in a team that's part of gen-i). Let me know if there are any job that pay 15-20万年薪 and i will go for it. :)

most SDM - operational manager type roles in NZ only pay about 80-100k. Sales related roles are different obviously.

[ 本帖最后由 117wik 于 2009-9-11 16:24 编辑 ]

chao

能在 IT 待 10 +  年 很強...
請問 117 幾歲了 ?

117wik

原帖由 chao 于 2009-9-11 16:54 发表
能在 IT 待 10 +  年 很強...
請問 117 幾歲了 ?

33 yo. I knows quite a few that have been working in IT for more than 10 years too, longer doesn't mean more skillful though. (i know people that work as a helpdesk for 10 years). :)

leiz

原帖由 117wik 于 2009-9-11 16:22 发表


i haven't seen any job in NZ that actually pay more than 12万 yet (unless it's a mid tier management role). I am now part of telecom (used to be in a team that's part of gen-i). Let me know if the ...

guess you don't know the market good enough. I have seen developers get paid more than 120K a year. Development managers get more than 200K a year. So don't be surprised if someone offers you that much amount of money. :P

狂奔的蜗牛!!!

IT赚得好多啊，改行学IT算了。

duncan_kai

原帖由 117wik 于 2009-9-11 16:22 发表


i haven't seen any job in NZ that actually pay more than 12万 yet (unless it's a mid tier management role). I am now part of telecom (used to be in a team that's part of gen-i). Let me know if the ...

如果真是这样的话,看来telecom NZ这样的公司确实给的不是很高,做一个安全方面的架构师拿不到15万的话..........................................

雁阵惊寒

原帖由 variable 于 2009-9-11 08:18 发表

莫非就是HydrA????

不是。我很菜，所以一般只和认识的人打。

117wik

原帖由 leiz 于 2009-9-12 10:43 发表


guess you don't know the market good enough. I have seen developers get paid more than 120K a year. Development managers get more than 200K a year. So don't be surprised if someone offers you that ...

i have been involve with hiring and interview (helping other managers) for more than 5 years and i was an operation manager before too, and to be honest, i seriously don't see many that's on that sort of money. I know enough people that work in IT and no one that came across are on more than 120k.

Every so often i do see in Hays salary survey and claims that for a particular role the average salary is so and so, and i have been in IT for a reasonable long time, and i haven't came across any jobs that willing to pay that much (job with sales focus is always a different story though).

117wik

原帖由 duncan_kai 于 2009-9-12 11:59 发表


如果真是这样的话,看来telecom NZ这样的公司确实给的不是很高,做一个安全方面的架构师拿不到15万的话..........................................

may be it's because i am not good enough. :)

may be i should consider changing job to become a software developer... u guys make it sounds like every developer is earning 120k-150k easily.

(-)(-)

Is 85K good enough for a senior java developer?

好事之徒

原帖由 117wik 于 2009-9-12 17:15 发表


may be it's because i am not good enough. :)

may be i should consider changing job to become a software developer... u guys make it sounds like every developer is earning 120k-150k easily.

纯粹的developer (不做任何pre-sale, team-leading, high-level design ...etc) 连达到100K 都难
permanent 的technical position 的确很难高过120K-150K （除非你自己是老板之一 但那时候你就不想自己工资太高 因为要避税了）
contractor 的话，究竟能有多少收入就天知道了...

好事之徒

原帖由 (-)(-) 于 2009-9-12 20:12 发表
Is 85K good enough for a senior java developer?

I'd say not enough for a really good one (but under the current economy, you might get some good ones moving off contracting market to take a permanent job and they might just take the offer to take it easy for a while, wait for the market to come back up)

好事之徒

原帖由 scottiedave 于 2009-9-12 20:57 发表

我对这方面也很有兴趣，可以介绍一下你们平时的工作吗？要成功被应聘应该具备什么条件？平时接触商业方面的东西多吗？

你指的“这方面” 是指泛意上的software architect 的工作呢 还是指 SOA, EAI, middleware 这个技术方面？

leiz

原帖由 117wik 于 2009-9-12 17:15 发表


may be it's because i am not good enough. :)

may be i should consider changing job to become a software developer... u guys make it sounds like every developer is earning 120k-150k easily.

Not every developer can get that much money. The positions that I have seen are from developer to developer manager. I have to say that it really depends on the business and the size of the company. There are a lot of people earning shit load of money and there are even more people earning shit amount. It makes the average low. And you have not seen != it does not exist.

[ 本帖最后由 leiz 于 2009-9-12 22:28 编辑 ]

marilyn_monroe

In NZ, permanent employees who work  in IT but want package > 200k, the place to go is Sydney, London, or US.One cousin of mine there who has 7 years of working experience, he had been working for a company, which paid him 160k  per annum, but was sacked after 1.5 years cos of economy downturn.

NZ pay is quite low. 90% companies are SOHO and SME, how do we expect they have deep pocket for staff pay?My boss is a kiwi, who has been working in IT since 1990, I'm pretty sure his pay is above 150k. If he goes for a small company, don't think  they can afford him.

Here, IT Contractors do get higher pay but not stable at all. The contractors working for us, we're paying their company around $400/hour.

好事之徒

原帖由 scottiedave 于 2009-9-13 18:35 发表

是SOA，EAI和middleware这方面的，可以介绍一下吗？

这个领域涉及的东西算挺多的 从广义来说 anything between front-end business application and back-end database is middleware, .NET 和 JavaEE 都是 middleware framework, 但算是比较low level, 一般不会从这样的low level 建立integration solution, 每个vendor 都会一些建立在这些low level framework 上的产品，例如microsoft 有BizTalk, IBM有WebSphere 平台上一整套SOA 产品（还有配套的硬件呢!), Oracle 有SOA suite 和因为买了BEA就还多了weblogic 上的一套东西（而且weblogic 的比oracle 自己的还强）... etc
我们的工作就是用这些high level 的工具架设企业需要的integration，有时候有些gap 会用到比如一个custom .net component 或者EJB 来补充，也就是说我们有时候也要fall back 到low level 的framework
传统上的EAI 有很多弊端（你可以自己google 一下，我就不多说了), 现在的潮流是SOA (其实单SOA 是不够的，要EDA来补充, 网上也有很多这方面的资料你可以查)
上面提到的这些vendor product 都是根据SOA 原理设计和为SOA 服务的;
职位的要求就是对SOA 理念要透彻, 这里面就涉及了不少具体技术性的东西 例如SOAP, WS-*, XML\Schema, XSLT, messaging...etc （SOA远远大于仅仅web services)，客户很多时候还会提出很多BPM的要求因为SOA/ESB对于business 的真正价值体现是在于BPM（business people don't really care WTF is SOA）, 当然还要对middleware framework和这些vendor产品要熟悉，还有一个很重要的方面就是学习不熟悉的产品/平台要快，因为integration 通常及涉及新的系统也更多的涉及旧的legacy systems, 例如你从来没见过AS400 是什么样子的 现在客户要他这套新的网上交易系统跟他用了10年的AS400 交换信息 你就得马上学习，而且每个project 涉及的系统都有不同.
如果上面说的是“硬能力”的话，还需要的“软能力”就是跟客户的交流了，因为integration 从定义上就需要跟很多不同的party 打交道，不光是你自己的客户，还有你客户的客户，你客户的其他vendor/supplier, integration 就是要integrate 他们各自本来独立的系统而形成完整的business process.
我自己是属于technical architect 所以我直接跟business people 打交道的场合还算少一点(还是有的) 更多的是跟客户方的architect/project manager 开会 做demo, training ...etc; 对内就是跟自己team 里的developer 交流了，这其实也是我觉得工作上最有压力的部分，因为要保持自己在技术上的优势是需要做很多home work 的（保持优势才能让人信服，例如有一次 team 里一个developer 给出一个task 的estimate 说要3周，我跟PM说 那是bullshit 我下午给你做一个 结果那天下班前我就把那个component给写了出来)，做design 的时候压力也大 怕考虑不周(通过多跟客户交流反馈可以减少这方面的压力）.

我现在的工作单位是属于consulting的公司，上面说的是在这个背景下的，以前在大企业的in-house team也做过，情况会有点不同（更多politics :) )
不知道写的这些对你会有多少实际帮助，我想end of the day, 最重要的还是自我学习 自我批评完善. 还有一本书想推荐给你 如果你真想在这方面有所发展，"enterprise integration patterns"
http://www.amazon.com/Enterprise-Integration-Patterns-Designing-Deploying/dp/0321200683
算是我的镇桌之宝吧 :)

milan24

hi 117wik, within telecom, whats the salary range telecom offering for a sys admin, who graduate from uni and have three years work experience.

variable

原帖由 好事之徒 于 2009-9-13 20:31 发表

这个领域涉及的东西算挺多的 从广义来说 anything between front-end business application and back-end database is middleware, .NET 和 JavaEE 都是 middleware framework, 但算是比较low level, 一般不会从这 ...

我们之前就是用Oracle SOA Suite，作为Oracle的pilot project, 但是缺乏support,后来就不了了之。
在选product之前一定要看看有多少人在用，一直打电话找support是一件很痛苦的事。

117wik

原帖由 milan24 于 2009-9-13 21:42 发表
hi 117wik, within telecom, whats the salary range telecom offering for a sys admin, who graduate from uni and have three years work experience.

It's kind of role/experience dependent. I am guessing between 55k - 70k.

好事之徒

原帖由 scottiedave 于 2009-9-13 23:25 发表

很详细啊，谢谢啊，请问你是读compsci还是info的？一般business analyst的工作主要是什么？

我原来是读electrical & electronic engineering (俗称double E) 后来补读了compsci 的graduate diploma;
BA的工作看你是在什么公司 是在IT consulting firm里的话 基本就是当business people跟techie 之间的中间人跟“翻译”

好事之徒

原帖由 variable 于 2009-9-14 07:56 发表

我们之前就是用Oracle SOA Suite，作为Oracle的pilot project, 但是缺乏support,后来就不了了之。
在选product之前一定要看看有多少人在用，一直打电话找support是一件很痛苦的事。

oracle 本身的support 就不错啊 （澳洲的support centre 里 还很多中国人呢 NZ 的SR 都是由澳洲处理）