000000000000000000000000

evenspu

00000000000000000000000000000000000

261874939

我一直都认为这个是个好东西！

beatles

amepluie 发表于 2018-7-19 22:00
终于有个明白人了，看了整个帖子满脸尴尬。。。请找专业人士（律师/会计师）了解情况。。。
Family Trust ...

这说得有理！

astra

amepluie 发表于 2018-7-19 22:00
终于有个明白人了，看了整个帖子满脸尴尬。。。请找专业人士（律师/会计师）了解情况。。。
Family Trust ...

对的，N年前去掉39%的时候，信托已经没有合理避税的优势了因为都是33%。不过还是可以起到保护财产的作用。搞信托还不如先把遗嘱搞定了再说，虽然有些不好听

amepluie

月流东山 发表于 2018-7-19 13:48
如果孩子是受益人的话是不是最好得16岁以上，我看一个IRD的文件好像16岁以下的受益人要收33%的税，那样就 ...

终于有个明白人了，看了整个帖子满脸尴尬。。。请找专业人士（律师/会计师）了解情况。。。
Family Trust 自从最高税收的39%调整后再也没有节税效果了。

Family Trust 最大作用就是避风险，两大作用：
1）做生意的：保护家庭主要财产【自住房】，要是生意失败还有房子可以自住
2）婚姻保障：主要是如果房子要给孩子，放在信托里避免孩子未来伴侣分一半

rch

我是坏人，打击一下。家庭信托不是一个帖子可以说明白，讨论清楚的。如果一知半解，道听途说，以为不过如此会吃苦头的，去图书馆找本信托的书看更靠谱。另外也提醒一下，不是每个律师都擅长家庭信托的。

bungyjumping999

evenspu 发表于 2018-7-19 18:56
我的英文没有很专业，如果需要家庭信托的人最好还是找个专业人士帮助更好。最好是律师而且有家庭信托经验的 ...

Sorry that I can only write English... I hope I can explain it better in Chinese.

Yes, not all lawyers are good in Trust.


"如果帮孩子买房子后，孩子的婚姻有了问题，那时信托就是一种保障吧" ------------> Without the name "Trust" most chinese family bought the house in their own names (husband and wife) and let the son and his wife stay. They still can control the ownership of the house. That is the chinese way of doing thing even without the Western concept of "Trust".

" 孩子的保障，立遗嘱，里面说好如果同时发生不测时财产如何有利于孩子" ---------------> with or without "Trust" this issue will always confront us as immigrants. If the husband die, he will know the wife will look after the children.  If the wife die, she will know the husband will look after the children, they mutually appoint each other under the will.

If both are to die simultaneously ( die at the same time in a car crash, plane crash), so they will have to think who will be the guardian for the children while chidren are still little and the guardian will be "holding the property on trust for the children while they are still minor", this is always the question people are thinking hard. Can they leave it to their friend? or brother, sister, elderly parents who have no idea how NZ system work?


"不找专业人士有很多原因，成本是一方面" ---------------> There are many responsibilities on Trustees under Trustee Act. If the husband and wife are acting as that they are the "heart and soul of the trust", it actually loses the purpose. The trust ends up to be an " alter ego" of the husband and wife. Even asking 3rd party, friend or family member as trustees, are they just rubber stamping?  what happened if the Trust gets into Tax issues, chased by IRD? The trustees are personally liable, do they actually know that?  Ignorant of the law is not an excuse, they can rubber stamping but end up personally liable for the Trust's tax liabilities.


Trust is not a document only, it involves management separate from personal affairs and trust itself, independence, resolutions properly documented, appointment, review from time to time, not ad hoc, separating the account controlling between the trust and trustees and settlors and beneficiaries.

It is a western creature, adaptable if one is willing to change the "mindset" and tune on the proper management of the Trust beyond one's lifespan through to next generation. It is a challenge to some, cutting corners and selective hearing from friends for things that one wants to hear would only confuse and create more myths on this living document.

x-ray

bungyjumping999 发表于 2018-7-19 14:39
Just need to be careful not to pass on wrong information to people. IRD is not that stupid regarding ...

说得很好，很多人都误解了trust的作用，最后就是花了大钱，弄个四不像，根本起不到应有的作用。

特别是有很多贷款的房子还要放trust， 我就反问他们，你保护你的债干嘛？把债留给小孩？

evenspu

我的英文没有很专业，如果需要家庭信托的人最好还是找个专业人士帮助更好。最好是律师而且有家庭信托经验的。也不是每个律师都很清楚的。

evenspu

bungyjumping999 发表于 2018-7-19 14:39
Just need to be careful not to pass on wrong information to people. IRD is not that stupid regarding ...

谢谢，我也是自己和朋友的理解和经验，有不对的地方请大家更正，共同讨论。
对于没有交最高税率的人或家庭来说，家庭信托的确影响不大。
对于婚姻，举个例子吧，如果帮孩子买房子后，孩子的婚姻有了问题，那时信托就是一种保障吧。
                自己的婚姻，如果走到了尽头，最后即时分开也能相对的公平，而且避免不必要的麻烦。
对于孩子的保障，立遗嘱，里面说好如果同时发生不测时财产如何有利于孩子。
不找专业人士有很多原因，成本是一方面。我的律师是朋友的孩子，但我也选她的爸爸，我们夫妻共同的朋友，作为第三方

bungyjumping999

Just need to be careful not to pass on wrong information to people. IRD is not that stupid regarding beneficiaries income, the minor beneficiary will be taxed at 33% ( that is the highest rate possible). IRD is very sensitive to monitor beneficiaries income and will see if the beneficiaries have other incomes (such as welfare payments etc). So, in either way, it is back to the source.  If you do beneficiary income distributions, everyone must file a tax return every year and put themselves on the watch lists of IRD.


"当你婚姻出现问题时，你们的共同财产包括房子肯定可以得到保护" ---------> if it is matrimonial property (  or even if it is not matrimonial property, ie you set up a trust to defeat your present or future spouse's entitlement will itself bring the trust into question)  It doesn't matter if you have trust or not, it will still need to be split or open to challenge.  So, what kind of protection are you talking about?  The court is most willing to break down the trust and divide the property. In short, trust is not the right way to exclude the other spouse from the matrimonial claim.

"当你发生意外（不希望看见）时，你的孩子可以得到保护（至少有地方住，有了投资房至少有收入保障" ------------> this is easy to say. Who are the trustees? likely are husband and wife? - if wife died husband will be the sole trustee. If husband die, wife will be sole trustee. if both die together ( simultaneous death), who will be trustees? Many Chinese don't want other professional people involved so end up not getting the purpose of setting up the trust.  In short, it is still a question on how to run the trust to achieve its purpose.

In the above husband & wife trustees example, many don't know how to run it and will just run it their own way and understanding and show no respect for trust deeds. This itself would not offer protection to the children beneficiaries.

If Trustees (husband and wife) run it as like there is no government, take money as they want, use money from this pocket to that pocket, no resolutions, no 3rd party supervision, no professional involved....... Does it actually offer the protection that Trust give?

Might well don't set up (if cutting corners), it is a western creature and doesn't suit some people.





______________________

EXtract from IRD:

Certain distributions of beneficiary income to children who are under 16 (minors) on the balance date of the trust must be taxed at a final tax rate of 33%.

"Minor beneficiary income is taxed as trustees' income and is not the minor's gross income. For the purposes of entries in a beneficiary's account with a trust, the tax on beneficiary income, although taxed as trustees' income, is still treated as being paid on behalf of the beneficiary."

bluekiwisky

一直弄不明白family trust到底干嘛的

月流东山

evenspu 发表于 2018-5-9 15:05
如果你的投资房是盈利的，而你的收入也在交税，而且超过了最低税率。那么你投资房的收入可以变成给予受益 ...

如果孩子是受益人的话是不是最好得16岁以上，我看一个IRD的文件好像16岁以下的受益人要收33%的税，那样就没有避税的效果了

V7

evenspu 发表于 2018-5-10 08:49
是的。。。。。。。。。。。。

怪不得老外每年都要用信托的钱装修房子

evenspu

lodn 发表于 2018-5-9 19:59
原来这样学习了　　请问信托存款利息税是３３％么　　

是的。。。。。。。。。。。。

lodn

evenspu 发表于 2018-5-9 15:12
信托把钱都给了受益人，那么信托就是没有收入，就不用交税。类似一个是公司税，一个是PAYE ...

原来这样学习了　　请问信托存款利息税是３３％么　　

evenspu

V7 发表于 2018-5-9 14:52
可以这么理解吗。
平时个人收入基本上缴纳快30%的税，如果有信托，可以分担税金到受益人的名下，缴纳10% ...

你的工资收入是不可以放入信托的，但你的投资房可以。但你的收入如果来源于生意就又要有别的方法了。
你现在投资房的负收入就可以抵扣你的年收入。

evenspu

lodn 发表于 2018-5-9 15:03
请问，例如，信托收入报税３３％，之后受益人再报税１７％　么　？　　 ...

信托把钱都给了受益人，那么信托就是没有收入，就不用交税。类似一个是公司税，一个是PAYE

evenspu

pc1 发表于 2018-5-9 14:35
这句是什么意思，不是很清楚，麻烦解答一下====》当你把投资房放入信托后，你的正收入可以划去没有收入的受 ...

如果你的投资房是盈利的，而你的收入也在交税，而且超过了最低税率。那么你投资房的收入可以变成给予受益人（比如你的孩子8岁），由于孩子没有工作，那么他的0-14000只需要交10.5%的所得税。给你用数据举个例子：
你 收入70000一年，投资房收入 30000一年，你有孩子小学私校一年20000费用
如果没有trust，
70000+30000=100000收入，所得税:年薪是10万，那么计算方法是$14,000 * 10.5% + ($48,000-$14,000) * 17.5% + ($70,000-$48,000) * 30% + ($100,000-$70,000) * 33% = $23,920.00

有trust，且投资房在trust下，孩子是受益人：
70000 你的所得税是：14,000 * 10.5% + ($48,000-$14,000) * 17.5% + ($70,000-$48,000) * 30%=14020
30000 转给孩子所以付的所得税  14000x10.5%+(3000-14000)x17.5%=4247

23920-14020=9900
9900-4247=5653由于FAMILY TRUST 没有收入所以不用交FAMILY TRUST 的税，类似公司税
你可以通过信托节省5653的税费。这就是合理避税我不确定20000的学费是否可以抵扣税费，要问会计。

lodn

evenspu 发表于 2018-5-9 14:32
受益人报税可以报最低税率啊

请问，例如，信托收入报税３３％，之后受益人再报税１７％　么　？　　

V7

evenspu 发表于 2018-5-9 14:10
对的。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。

可以这么理解吗。
平时个人收入基本上缴纳快30%的税，如果有信托，可以分担税金到受益人的名下，缴纳10%的税金， 如果投资房是付收入，那么可以抵扣掉投资房的loss对吗？

pc1

这句是什么意思，不是很清楚，麻烦解答一下====》当你把投资房放入信托后，你的正收入可以划去没有收入的受益人，以此来达到避税的目的

evenspu

lodn 发表于 2018-5-9 14:28
信托报税比个人高很多，

受益人报税可以报最低税率啊

joyjoyjoy

evenspu 发表于 2018-5-9 14:19
不是不报税，是你不报税，信托报税。
这样解释吧，如果一个人的收入税一直是 10.5% 17.5%
那么我觉得信托 ...

算了。不研究了。还是不算太懂

lodn

evenspu 发表于 2018-5-9 14:19
不是不报税，是你不报税，信托报税。
这样解释吧，如果一个人的收入税一直是 10.5% 17.5%
那么我觉得信托 ...

信托报税比个人高很多，

evenspu

oplwy 发表于 2018-5-9 14:07
什么叫付扣税？

负扣税，是指你的投资房每年损失的部分无法抵扣你的年收入

evenspu

joyjoyjoy 发表于 2018-5-9 14:09
全部不懂。可能是我理解能力差。
比如如果我有投资房租金收入。放在信托下租金可以不报税。不算收入了?  ...

不是不报税，是你不报税，信托报税。
这样解释吧，如果一个人的收入税一直是 10.5% 17.5%
那么我觉得信托作用不大，因为还有会计费在
但如果你的税率有30% 33%的，那么信托就有好处了。
如果有了好几套房在信托下，还申请福利是不推荐的，何况WORK INCOME 会问你是否有信托的，你骗人就是诈骗了

evenspu

V7 发表于 2018-5-9 14:10
明白，这样还是可以放在一起抵扣的吗？求会计解答

对的。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。

V7

evenspu 发表于 2018-5-9 13:54
也可以放入，如果是投资房，那么就算将来负扣税取消了，也可以起到避税的目的具体你可以找个会计问问
...

明白，这样还是可以放在一起抵扣的吗？求会计解答

joyjoyjoy

evenspu 发表于 2018-5-9 14:05
你那里觉得不明白，我改正

全部不懂。可能是我理解能力差。
比如如果我有投资房租金收入。放在信托下租金可以不报税。不算收入了? 那比如有的人有好几套投资房放信托下。但没有工资收入。是不是可以领福利了?