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bluekiwisky

一直弄不明白family trust到底干嘛的

bungyjumping999

Just need to be careful not to pass on wrong information to people. IRD is not that stupid regarding beneficiaries income, the minor beneficiary will be taxed at 33% ( that is the highest rate possible). IRD is very sensitive to monitor beneficiaries income and will see if the beneficiaries have other incomes (such as welfare payments etc). So, in either way, it is back to the source.  If you do beneficiary income distributions, everyone must file a tax return every year and put themselves on the watch lists of IRD.


"当你婚姻出现问题时，你们的共同财产包括房子肯定可以得到保护" ---------> if it is matrimonial property (  or even if it is not matrimonial property, ie you set up a trust to defeat your present or future spouse's entitlement will itself bring the trust into question)  It doesn't matter if you have trust or not, it will still need to be split or open to challenge.  So, what kind of protection are you talking about?  The court is most willing to break down the trust and divide the property. In short, trust is not the right way to exclude the other spouse from the matrimonial claim.

"当你发生意外（不希望看见）时，你的孩子可以得到保护（至少有地方住，有了投资房至少有收入保障" ------------> this is easy to say. Who are the trustees? likely are husband and wife? - if wife died husband will be the sole trustee. If husband die, wife will be sole trustee. if both die together ( simultaneous death), who will be trustees? Many Chinese don't want other professional people involved so end up not getting the purpose of setting up the trust.  In short, it is still a question on how to run the trust to achieve its purpose.

In the above husband & wife trustees example, many don't know how to run it and will just run it their own way and understanding and show no respect for trust deeds. This itself would not offer protection to the children beneficiaries.

If Trustees (husband and wife) run it as like there is no government, take money as they want, use money from this pocket to that pocket, no resolutions, no 3rd party supervision, no professional involved....... Does it actually offer the protection that Trust give?

Might well don't set up (if cutting corners), it is a western creature and doesn't suit some people.





______________________

EXtract from IRD:

Certain distributions of beneficiary income to children who are under 16 (minors) on the balance date of the trust must be taxed at a final tax rate of 33%.

"Minor beneficiary income is taxed as trustees' income and is not the minor's gross income. For the purposes of entries in a beneficiary's account with a trust, the tax on beneficiary income, although taxed as trustees' income, is still treated as being paid on behalf of the beneficiary."

evenspu

bungyjumping999 发表于 2018-7-19 14:39
Just need to be careful not to pass on wrong information to people. IRD is not that stupid regarding ...

谢谢，我也是自己和朋友的理解和经验，有不对的地方请大家更正，共同讨论。
对于没有交最高税率的人或家庭来说，家庭信托的确影响不大。
对于婚姻，举个例子吧，如果帮孩子买房子后，孩子的婚姻有了问题，那时信托就是一种保障吧。
                自己的婚姻，如果走到了尽头，最后即时分开也能相对的公平，而且避免不必要的麻烦。
对于孩子的保障，立遗嘱，里面说好如果同时发生不测时财产如何有利于孩子。
不找专业人士有很多原因，成本是一方面。我的律师是朋友的孩子，但我也选她的爸爸，我们夫妻共同的朋友，作为第三方

evenspu

我的英文没有很专业，如果需要家庭信托的人最好还是找个专业人士帮助更好。最好是律师而且有家庭信托经验的。也不是每个律师都很清楚的。

x-ray

bungyjumping999 发表于 2018-7-19 14:39
Just need to be careful not to pass on wrong information to people. IRD is not that stupid regarding ...

说得很好，很多人都误解了trust的作用，最后就是花了大钱，弄个四不像，根本起不到应有的作用。

特别是有很多贷款的房子还要放trust， 我就反问他们，你保护你的债干嘛？把债留给小孩？

bungyjumping999

evenspu 发表于 2018-7-19 18:56
我的英文没有很专业，如果需要家庭信托的人最好还是找个专业人士帮助更好。最好是律师而且有家庭信托经验的 ...

Sorry that I can only write English... I hope I can explain it better in Chinese.

Yes, not all lawyers are good in Trust.


"如果帮孩子买房子后，孩子的婚姻有了问题，那时信托就是一种保障吧" ------------> Without the name "Trust" most chinese family bought the house in their own names (husband and wife) and let the son and his wife stay. They still can control the ownership of the house. That is the chinese way of doing thing even without the Western concept of "Trust".

" 孩子的保障，立遗嘱，里面说好如果同时发生不测时财产如何有利于孩子" ---------------> with or without "Trust" this issue will always confront us as immigrants. If the husband die, he will know the wife will look after the children.  If the wife die, she will know the husband will look after the children, they mutually appoint each other under the will.

If both are to die simultaneously ( die at the same time in a car crash, plane crash), so they will have to think who will be the guardian for the children while chidren are still little and the guardian will be "holding the property on trust for the children while they are still minor", this is always the question people are thinking hard. Can they leave it to their friend? or brother, sister, elderly parents who have no idea how NZ system work?


"不找专业人士有很多原因，成本是一方面" ---------------> There are many responsibilities on Trustees under Trustee Act. If the husband and wife are acting as that they are the "heart and soul of the trust", it actually loses the purpose. The trust ends up to be an " alter ego" of the husband and wife. Even asking 3rd party, friend or family member as trustees, are they just rubber stamping?  what happened if the Trust gets into Tax issues, chased by IRD? The trustees are personally liable, do they actually know that?  Ignorant of the law is not an excuse, they can rubber stamping but end up personally liable for the Trust's tax liabilities.


Trust is not a document only, it involves management separate from personal affairs and trust itself, independence, resolutions properly documented, appointment, review from time to time, not ad hoc, separating the account controlling between the trust and trustees and settlors and beneficiaries.

It is a western creature, adaptable if one is willing to change the "mindset" and tune on the proper management of the Trust beyond one's lifespan through to next generation. It is a challenge to some, cutting corners and selective hearing from friends for things that one wants to hear would only confuse and create more myths on this living document.

rch

我是坏人，打击一下。家庭信托不是一个帖子可以说明白，讨论清楚的。如果一知半解，道听途说，以为不过如此会吃苦头的，去图书馆找本信托的书看更靠谱。另外也提醒一下，不是每个律师都擅长家庭信托的。

amepluie

月流东山 发表于 2018-7-19 13:48
如果孩子是受益人的话是不是最好得16岁以上，我看一个IRD的文件好像16岁以下的受益人要收33%的税，那样就 ...

终于有个明白人了，看了整个帖子满脸尴尬。。。请找专业人士（律师/会计师）了解情况。。。
Family Trust 自从最高税收的39%调整后再也没有节税效果了。

Family Trust 最大作用就是避风险，两大作用：
1）做生意的：保护家庭主要财产【自住房】，要是生意失败还有房子可以自住
2）婚姻保障：主要是如果房子要给孩子，放在信托里避免孩子未来伴侣分一半

astra

amepluie 发表于 2018-7-19 22:00
终于有个明白人了，看了整个帖子满脸尴尬。。。请找专业人士（律师/会计师）了解情况。。。
Family Trust ...

对的，N年前去掉39%的时候，信托已经没有合理避税的优势了因为都是33%。不过还是可以起到保护财产的作用。搞信托还不如先把遗嘱搞定了再说，虽然有些不好听

beatles

amepluie 发表于 2018-7-19 22:00
终于有个明白人了，看了整个帖子满脸尴尬。。。请找专业人士（律师/会计师）了解情况。。。
Family Trust ...

这说得有理！

261874939

我一直都认为这个是个好东西！