来讨论一下这个，我简直不能相信是真的。欢迎会计。

房奴甲

税务财务知识分享——如何判定房产开发和投资是否要纳税。

提出解决这类问题的几个关键点：

第一是意图。如果购置房产的目的是为了出售盈利而不是为了长期持有，那么无论你持有房产多久，出售以后都要纳税。

第二是业内人士和其相关人士。业内人士是指从事土地开发，房屋建造，房地产买卖的人士。相关人士主要是指他们的配偶。凡是业内人士或他们的配偶购买或开发的房地产，出售以后都要纳税，除非这是他们的自住房，自己的办公室。这里要注意的是这里的业内人士特指有决策权的人。如果你以前是为某个业内人士工作，现在要想出来自己干，自己有决策权了，建议您和会计师或税务律师讨论做好您的税务规划。

第三点是明线规定和十年期限。明线是指非自住的房产在五年内售出，要纳税。十年期限是指最终是否要纳税，还需要看持有人是否拥有此房地产十年以上。例如，业内人士的配偶如果购置房地产，并在十年内售出，就要纳税。而一般人士只要拥有房地产超过明线时间，不需要等十年售出，收入所得不用纳税。

第四点是非次要变化-More than minor. 这是指普通人士在拥有房地产十年内售出，尽管已经过了明线时间，应该不用纳税了，但是非次要变化可能需要你纳税。常见的非次要变化包括你花相当数额的资金为房地产申请了资源许可，建筑许可和测量规划。这些变化都不属于次要变化，在有这些非次要变化的情况下，你又在十年内售出，就要纳税。

第五点是重大改变-Significant changes. 这里的关键是无论什么人士，无论是否自住，无论拥有多长时间，只要对房地产做了重大改变，包括实际的分割，平整土地，埋电缆，铺水管，建新房。在这种情况下，售出需要纳税。

This info is in general nature does not count as professional advice. Please make your own judgement.

房奴甲

太可怕。你的自住房如果改建，卖的时候也要交税。于是你在这期间由于时间积累的自然的capital gain也一起上税。这是不是抢劫?

NewLynnHse

有链接吗？还是看英文原文比较好。翻译的有时候有错误的信息，真的不信这里的翻译，太二把刀了。。。哈哈

auckland.clark

自住有很多灰色地带的。

房奴甲

NewLynnHse 发表于 2018-7-26 13:10
有链接吗？还是看英文原文比较好。翻译的有时候有错误的信息，真的不信这里的翻译，太二把刀了。。。哈哈 ...

我微信收到的，但愿是胡说八道。

NewLynnHse

房奴甲 发表于 2018-7-26 13:11
我微信收到的，但愿是胡说八道。

微信收到的多数是fake news，所以我不用微信

bungyjumping999

Too many things in one paragraph.

Just focus one for now: if a person move 10 times in 12 years and claim to be selling his "family home (main house)", is he/she liable to pay tax for the gain?

IRD has a defination of " Regular Pattern". What is a regular pattern of a person's behaviour who buys and sells family homes "regularly" in the last few years?

Another issue is " if a builder, developer using his family members to buy and sell, what is its implication for tax liabilities on the family members?"

Builder/ developer's family members (eg wife, children, father, mother) are considered to be associated person of the builder / developer, they are tainted by virtue of their association with the builder / developer (this class of people is called tainted person). Their activities and family members will likely be questionable by IRD in the Audit.

Many people will choose "not believing" and have their own understanding of IRD and practice selective listening to friends, i can only haha.

angelee123

你解释得基本都是对的，要是真按法律上执行的话，我基本保证坛子里的人有一小半能给罚的倾家荡产

NewLynnHse

bungyjumping999 发表于 2018-7-26 13:28
Too many things in one paragraph.

Just focus one for now: if a person move 10 times in 12 years and ...

The system is too complicated to even police, so a lot of people got away with all sorts of "hacks". It's too hard
and expensive to chase them to make it worthwhile.

IRD needs to wake up their ideas...haha

bungyjumping999

NewLynnHse 发表于 2018-7-26 13:35
The system is too complicated to even police, so a lot of people got away with all sorts of "hacks ...

Yes and No, mate.

All they need is to increase their manpower and start auditing some people, they will get a lot of money back.
Basically, difficult to fight back and these people are normally wealthy and with properties.

NewLynnHse

bungyjumping999 发表于 2018-7-26 13:37
Yes and No, mate.

All they need is to increase their manpower and start auditing, they will get a ...

I suspect they can't even explain these things themselves...LOL

In order to be able to catch these people, they must be clear themselves first.

Bearonrun

1, 2, 3 点符合我对IRD 相关条例的理解。

第四点没讲清楚。

第五点， 按字面意思，可以举出不少反例。

bungyjumping999

NewLynnHse 发表于 2018-7-26 13:38
I suspect they can't even explain these things themselves...LOL

In order to be able to catch thes ...

ignorant of the law is not an excuse.

The process is simple, start auditing.  

I aware that IRD is now recruiting people........... chinese and indian

Lease

Income Tax Act 2007

CB 13 Disposal: amount from major development or division and not already in income
Income
(1)
An amount that a person derives from disposing of land is income of the person if—

(a) the amount is not income under any of sections CB 6A to CB 12 and CB 14; and

(b)the amount is derived in the following circumstances:

(i)an undertaking or scheme, which is not necessarily in the nature of a business, is carried on; and

(ii)the undertaking or scheme involves the development of the land or the division of the land into lots; and

(iii)the person, or another person for them, carries on development or division work on or relating to the land; and

(iv)the development or division work involves significant expenditure on channelling, contouring, drainage, earthworks, kerbing, levelling, roading, or any other amenity, service, or work customarily undertaken or provided in major projects involving the development of land for commercial, industrial, or residential purposes.

我载选所得税税法CB１３，　主要针对楼主所讲的第５条：Significant changes

楼主的信息完全正确。

NewLynnHse

bungyjumping999 发表于 2018-7-26 13:40
ignorant of the law is not an excuse.

The process is simple, start auditing.  

These people are not ignorant, they just know what loopholes to exploit...haha

IRD is the ignorant one ironically

bungyjumping999

NewLynnHse 发表于 2018-7-26 13:42
These people are not ignorant, they just know what loopholes to exploit...haha

IRD is the ignoran ...

Many of these people are ignorant ( take chances, hit and run), and trying their luck.

I do know. They try to live in NZ as that they are still living in 3rd world countries, taking chances.

NewLynnHse

bungyjumping999 发表于 2018-7-26 13:45
Many of these people are ignorant ( take chances, hit and run), and trying their luck.

I do know. ...

Hello, if one sets out to make money, just pay tax, it's that simple. How can be ignorant of that?

bungyjumping999

NewLynnHse 发表于 2018-7-26 13:46
Hello, if one sets out to make money, just pay tax, it's that simple. How can be ignorant of that?

if tax is not tax at source (eg GST, PAYE), it is left to be audit if one is not honest.
This is an area IRD is working on. They need to be more efficient. it is a question of management.

NewLynnHse

bungyjumping999 发表于 2018-7-26 13:47
if tax is not tax at source (eg GST), it is left to be audit if one is not honest.

yeah, that's why they cannot be ignorant, but yes, dishonest...haha

bungyjumping999

NewLynnHse 发表于 2018-7-26 13:49
yeah, that's why they cannot be ignorant, but yes, dishonest...haha

element of dishonest and ignorant.

Ignorant is pretending they don't know, don't want to know, listen to friends.

261874939

鼓励大家一直买，不卖。。。。

occc

刚收到消息说9月份左右pwc会提交报告建议政府全面实施CGT。

大家finger cross把

bungyjumping999

261874939 发表于 2018-7-26 13:50
鼓励大家一直买，不卖。。。。

Yes.

Then ird will be wondering where do you get the money from?

It exposes another area of audits ------------> money from overseas? nz tax residents is liable for his global incomes.

Cash business not paying tax? ------------> it doesn't match the money one has (tax returns) and the properties he holds.

Death and Taxes are certain in NZ OR Leaving this Country is another option.

Bearonrun

Lease 发表于 2018-7-26 13:41
Income Tax Act 2007

CB 13 Disposal: amount from major development or division and not already in in ...

我对第5点有异议，楼主转发的信息，指出就算是自住也得交税。可按照我对于税法的理解，这并不正确。而且你引用的税法条文，也没有这样的规定。

例如，某人有大地一自住房。他分割后，在新建地上盖新的自住房，原自住作为出租。多年以后，两个房子出售都不需要缴税。当然了，如果有些人打算住一段时间装装样子，并不包括在在内。这是我的理解，之前也得到了Taxation specialist的确认。也见过不少的例子。

bungyjumping999

2 houses is part of the exemption allowable by IRD ( one family house and another developed site for use of family members).


Extracts:
"(1) Sections CB 12 and CB 13 do not apply if—
(a) the work involved in the undertaking or scheme is to create or effect a development, division, or improvement; and
(b) the development, division, or improvement is for use in, and for the purposes of, the residing on the land of the person or any member of their family living with them."



Try to develop 3 -4 houses and see if there is any different from the opinion of the tax specialist ?

By then, "substantial development" and "significant changes" will come into play.

angelee123

Bearonrun 发表于 2018-7-26 14:08
我对第5点有异议，楼主转发的信息，指出就算是自住也得交税。可按照我对于税法的理解，这并不正确。而且 ...

楼主说的基本对，像你说的最后这种基本上参考1 purpose
我印象中当年学过一个case，大地分割，然后自主一个，另一个给了一个亲戚住。说白了就是出租，最后argue出来就是都不缴税，但记不住是多久了，好像是很多年后才卖

如果时分割后马上，或者几年之内卖的话，很难在purpose上解释清楚，基本上是该交税的

其实，说白了，就是ird不查，差的话，不说别的，就我知道的，有些中介，buy & sell 或者中间加上装修，都是要交税的，但是很多人聪明，没有自住房，这样感觉好像是buy and sell的都是自住房，而不是炒房，ird查他们那基本上一查一个准

我还记得几年前坛子里有人说新西兰没有cgt，其实当时就是瞎话，只不过就像法不责众一样，大家都这么干，都觉得ird永远不查，ird也很配合，偶尔会查一两个人，如果是别的事牵出房产问题的话

Lease

Bearonrun 发表于 2018-7-26 14:08
我对第5点有异议，楼主转发的信息，指出就算是自住也得交税。可按照我对于税法的理解，这并不正确。而且 ...

不好意思， 我没有引用完整。 CB 13下面还有这一段：

Exclusions
(2) Subsection (1) is overridden by the exclusions for residential land in section CB 17, for business premises in section CB 20, for farm land in section CB 21, and for investment land in section CB 23.

CB 17 Residential exclusion from sections CB 12 and CB 13
Exclusion: developing or dividing land for residential use
(1) Sections CB 12 and CB 13 do not apply if—
(a) the work involved in the undertaking or scheme is to create or effect a development, division, or improvement; and
(b) the development, division, or improvement is for use in, and for the purposes of, the residing on the land of the person or any member of their family living with them.

Exclusion: dividing residential land
(2) Sections CB 12 and CB 13 do not apply if—
(a) the land is a lot that came out of a larger area of land that the person divided into 2 or more lots; and
(b)the larger area of land—
(i)was 4,500 square metres or less immediately before it was divided; and
(ii) was occupied by the person mainly as residential land for themselves and a member of their family living with them.

即你分割后再造的新房依然是你或是你的家人自住的话， 那CB13不适用。

angelee123

Lease 发表于 2018-7-26 14:23
不好意思， 我没有引用完整。 CB 13下面还有这一段：

Exclusions

对对对  就是这条  我是记不住那么多条款

不过  我记住老师的一句话

new zealand does not have a comprehensive CGT, instead its all in the income tax act

benefit is attracting overseas investors to come and buy, and income tax act is sufficient to claw back the gain on capital

However, IRD is not able to implement the audit  LOL

Bearonrun

Lease 发表于 2018-7-26 14:23
不好意思， 我没有引用完整。 CB 13下面还有这一段：

Exclusions

没错，就是这一段，给了自住开发的豁免。

所以，楼主转发的第五点的一些词句，并不正确。还可以举出一些反例。

occc

angelee123 发表于 2018-7-26 14:31
对对对  就是这条  我是记不住那么多条款

不过  我记住老师的一句话

按照工党政府的尿性，马上就会有全面的cgt了