新西兰天维网社区

标题: 房产开发五年之后卖不交税对吗？今天听说私人名下开发不卖可能也会预交GST [打印本页]
作者: zhong5487    时间: 2021-2-22 13:07:59     标题: 房产开发五年之后卖不交税对吗？今天听说私人名下开发不卖可能也会预交GST

本帖最后由 zhong5487 于 2021-3-28 20:26 编辑

比如2020年一月买了个房子，私人名下，然后2022年分割后盖好了4-6套，然后出租，直到2025年一月再卖出，是不是就算过了明线，不交税了，出租几年交个人所得税就好了？
我咨询了会计，是那么告诉我的，感觉那也太简单了，捂得住的，这么操作也是挺好的，挺简单的，我一直觉得开发后拿到新的几套房子ccc后需要再开始五年明线计算呢



今天听人说他一个朋友也是私人名下开发后没有卖，直接收到ird要预收gst的钱，以后卖了后多退少补，把盖出来的房子先给个预估价，按预估价交gst,你可以反驳，打官司就是，横竖都是交钱，到底有没靠谱会计，收费可以，没问题，有没有真的懂的会计啊，政府认定你是开发行为，怎么操作都是要割你一大刀的感觉。。。



作者: Elddies    时间: 2021-2-22 13:12:36

明线很快就不是五年啦，现在能钻孔子的机会越来越少了
作者: V7    时间: 2021-2-22 13:15:17

不对，只要是开发都要交税。
作者: V7    时间: 2021-2-22 13:16:01

什么烂会计！
作者: zhong5487    时间: 2021-2-22 13:16:35

Elddies 发表于 2021-2-22 13:12
明线很快就不是五年啦，现在能钻孔子的机会越来越少了

就算的话，那以前买的应该还是五年吧，一刀切那种，怪不得很多人盖出来捂着出租，捂个2-3年卖就免税
作者: 人左之由    时间: 2021-2-22 13:18:18

我对这个的理解就是，只要你的intend是开发赚钱，而你做的也是建房，最后出售。还是需要交税的。

除非你捂手里一直收租，不卖出。
作者: zhong5487    时间: 2021-2-22 13:18:46

V7 发表于 2021-2-22 13:15
不对，只要是开发都要交税。

怎么个交法呢？请问你自己操作过吗？我问的那家会计规模还挺大，年纪也不小，就是说五年之后不交税呢，我也挺惊讶，那么容易
作者: 人左之由    时间: 2021-2-22 13:19:42

感觉只要你只要有分割跟建房这个事情在的话，你的intention就是development。
作者: bungyjumping999    时间: 2021-2-22 13:28:02

本帖最后由 bungyjumping999 于 2021-2-22 13:33 编辑

Pay for professional accountant advice, ask them to put it in writing, even it costs $600-800

This advice is important as if you get tax, it will cost a lot.

In IRD website, it actually said if it involves substantial development and changes to the original land, 2 lots subdiivision is consider small, 3-5 is consider substantial (big).

IRD also said if you buy a property and develop it within 10 years, it is considered as developer.
If you have the stamina (have money and time), you need to hold for more than 10 years.


All these, should ask the right accountant to write a paid opinion and you can keep it for future use, no point in asking for unpaid opinion.



作者: V7    时间: 2021-2-22 13:30:04

zhong5487 发表于 2021-2-22 13:18
怎么个交法呢？请问你自己操作过吗？我问的那家会计规模还挺大，年纪也不小，就是说五年之后不交税呢，我 ...

骗了再说嘛，你现在就会觉得，他好牛啊。 5年后他只要说一句，哎呀，5年啦税法早就改了，哪有漏洞啊，你想什么呢。

你是交税还是不交税？！
不要抱有幻想。

作者: Lease    时间: 2021-2-22 13:31:12

这个会计的回答应该不对，你分割再盖4-6套之后， title都变了， 不可能以原来房子的 title作为起始点来算明线测试的开始， 应该用新的title注册之日作为明线测试的开始之日， 即到2027年再卖， 就无需交税了.
作者: V7    时间: 2021-2-22 13:32:10

zhong5487 发表于 2021-2-22 13:18
怎么个交法呢？请问你自己操作过吗？我问的那家会计规模还挺大，年纪也不小，就是说五年之后不交税呢，我 ...

肯定交税的啊，近五年内不想交税的现在都捂在手上呢。我看到时税务局怎么收拾他们的。
作者: zhong5487    时间: 2021-2-22 13:33:51

Lease 发表于 2021-2-22 13:31
这个会计的回答应该不对，你分割再盖4-6套之后， title都变了， 不可能以原来房子的 title作为起始点来算明 ...

我就是这个意思，所以觉得太简单了，怎么会按之前的original title算明线呢
作者: Lease    时间: 2021-2-22 13:36:25

zhong5487 发表于 2021-2-22 13:33
我就是这个意思，所以觉得太简单了，怎么会按之前的original title算明线呢

这个会计明显是在敷衍你. 这根本完全是两个不同的房子了，怎么可能用original title算明线呢？
作者: bungyjumping999    时间: 2021-2-22 13:44:41

本帖最后由 bungyjumping999 于 2021-2-22 13:49 编辑

This is from IRD website. - but, accountant cautioned, it might not fall under brightline test, but might fall under the acquiring land for development and profit tax. So, best to keep it until the "intention" to make a profit is gone through the passage of time.



"Essentially, under s CB 6A(2), when a person sells a section of land that they have
subdivided, the bright-line period that applies is the bright-line period that would have
applied to the undivided land. Therefore, the bright-line period for the subdivided
section does not begin when that subdivided section is registered; rather it begins when
the transfer of the undivided land to the seller was registered. The fact that separate
computer registers (previously certificates of title) are created for the subdivided
sections is irrelevant to the bright-line period. "

作者: Lease    时间: 2021-2-22 13:52:00

bungyjumping999 发表于 2021-2-22 13:44
This is from IRD website. - but, accountant cautioned, it might not fall under brightline test, but  ...

Oh, new knowledge learnt.
作者: bungyjumping999    时间: 2021-2-22 13:53:46

Lease 发表于 2021-2-22 13:52
Oh, new knowledge learnt.

A general guideline will be 10 years to dispel "intention" to make a profit and is a genuine investor.
作者: hj_win_1    时间: 2021-2-22 14:00:55

你的会计很牛逼，先把你骗过来，赚你5年会计费1万，然后5年后再赚你IRD review的钱1万，搞不好，人家想的更长远，再赚你一笔audit的钱2万。。。你一分二，卖老房，不交税，卖新房，hold一下，然后跟IRD argue一下，也能让你不交税。你一分5，还想不交税，想多了。。。
作者: hj_win_1    时间: 2021-2-22 14:04:21

Lease 发表于 2021-2-22 12:31
这个会计的回答应该不对，你分割再盖4-6套之后， title都变了， 不可能以原来房子的 title作为起始点来算明 ...

不可能不交税的，1分5，光intention这一点就解释不过去。。。妥妥的被IRD定义为developer。1分2还能糊弄过去，1分3就很难去argue了。。。
作者: zhong5487    时间: 2021-2-22 14:04:28

hj_win_1 发表于 2021-2-22 14:00
你的会计很牛逼，先把你骗过来，赚你5年会计费1万，然后5年后再赚你IRD review的钱1万，搞不好，人家想的更 ...

这个税是卖了才交吗？不卖的话就不用交。。交租金个人所得税就可以了？
作者: 还是回国吧    时间: 2021-2-22 14:04:57

我喜欢你的会计，请楼主PM我会计的联系方式，谢谢
作者: hj_win_1    时间: 2021-2-22 14:07:15

最终的结果就是你个人被IRD定义位developer，然后你每次买房卖房都要交税。。。想拿掉developer这个高帽，会计再收你5000。。。完美。。。会计钱包鼓了
作者: hj_win_1    时间: 2021-2-22 14:08:12

V7 发表于 2021-2-22 12:16
什么烂会计！

明显是好会计，很有远见的会计，一个客户可以赚他几万。。。
作者: bungyjumping999    时间: 2021-2-22 14:14:51

本帖最后由 bungyjumping999 于 2021-2-22 14:21 编辑

Some people built and do not sell (and based on how many time do you develop)

and do not claim GST rebate on the development.
DO NOT call yourself a "developer", reply to emails and correspondents insisting "you are not selling, just renting out as a long term investor" and retaining those evident in the course of construction.

Those are evident the IRD will look at.

If it is a one-time thing, IRD might bypass you and will not invite you for coffee. Time is your friend, the longer you keep it, the safer it becomes.

Remember to ask a "big accounting firm" to write a paid opinion on the possibility of being tax after you decide to sell, if they give you green light, sell. If you get tax, you can sue them.

作者: Quad    时间: 2021-2-22 14:22:06

你一分5，还想不交税，想多了。。。
作者: 花心大萝卜    时间: 2021-2-22 14:31:22

确实是不用的 朋友就是那么操作的。
作者: Lease    时间: 2021-2-22 14:31:48

bungyjumping999 发表于 2021-2-22 14:14
Some people built and do not sell (and based on how many time do you develop)

and do not claim GST  ...

Not easy to sue them. They always put disclaimer on their opinion.
作者: bungyjumping999    时间: 2021-2-22 14:32:44

Lease 发表于 2021-2-22 14:31
Not easy to sue them. They always put disclaimer on their opinion.

yes, true.

I think if they give you a green light, they are pretty sure on their opinion.
作者: hj_win_1    时间: 2021-2-22 14:41:15

zhong5487 发表于 2021-2-22 13:04
这个税是卖了才交吗？不卖的话就不用交。。交租金个人所得税就可以了？ ...

不建议个人名下分割建房，注册个公司吧。。。
作者: angelee123    时间: 2021-2-22 14:45:26

这样的会计，不杀留着过年？
作者: 是个狼灭    时间: 2021-2-22 14:48:03

据我所知，如果你被认为是开发商行为，那就得交税了，最后交不交税只有税务局才能说的算
作者: 金庸大师    时间: 2021-2-22 14:55:20

我也以为不要交税。不过大地可以盖成multi unit就是一个title，我对面邻居就是这样盖三个独立的房子出租
作者: Lease    时间: 2021-2-22 14:55:34

angelee123 发表于 2021-2-22 14:45
这样的会计，不杀留着过年？

根据那个写英文网友的引用， 这个会计说的是对的
作者: hj_win_1    时间: 2021-2-22 14:59:20

花心大萝卜 发表于 2021-2-22 13:31
确实是不用的 朋友就是那么操作的。

求PM联系方式，我也有一个1分4的项目准备开工了，想找个胆子大的会计帮我避税
作者: hj_win_1    时间: 2021-2-22 14:59:59

bungyjumping999 发表于 2021-2-22 13:14
Some people built and do not sell (and based on how many time do you develop)

and do not claim GST  ...

Too hard to convince IRD
作者: zhong5487    时间: 2021-2-22 15:17:21

Lease 发表于 2021-2-22 14:55
根据那个写英文网友的引用， 这个会计说的是对的

就是明线按原始未分割土地开始算，分割后不需要重新开始计算明线，我是感觉那个会计是靠谱的，因为一半的活儿都是关于开发的，不至于连最基本的都搞不清楚
而且，据说是私人名下最简单，没那么复杂，一旦中途变动任何东西，就复杂多了
当然你如果就是纯开发商，一套接一套搞那肯定注册公司了，毕竟每个人情况不一样
作者: Lease    时间: 2021-2-22 15:19:51

zhong5487 发表于 2021-2-22 15:17
就是明线按原始未分割土地开始算，分割后不需要重新开始计算明线，我是感觉那个会计是靠谱的，因为一半的 ...

嗯， 这个绝对是学到新知识了.
作者: bungyjumping999    时间: 2021-2-22 15:35:56

本帖最后由 bungyjumping999 于 2021-2-22 15:43 编辑

毕竟每个人情况不一样 ----> that is right, everyone is different.

I only speak from my personal experience and advice I received from "qualified accountant".  
My theme is consistent as an investor, held the property for more than 8 years, now under development and subdivision, and will continue to use them to rent out for many years to come.


The accountant also asked me to file a form ( i forgot the name) for "0 income" on that property during the phase of construction, so that there are proof and continuity on that property.




作者: 还是回国吧    时间: 2021-2-22 15:43:22

bungyjumping999 发表于 2021-2-22 15:35
毕竟每个人情况不一样 ----> that is right, everyone is different.

i only speak from my personal expe ...

Wow, you also developer now...haha
作者: bungyjumping999    时间: 2021-2-22 15:44:42

本帖最后由 bungyjumping999 于 2021-2-22 15:48 编辑
还是回国吧 发表于 2021-2-22 15:43
Wow, you also developer now...haha

Alamat, don't simply use that name.
作者: hj_win_1    时间: 2021-2-22 15:50:40

bungyjumping999 发表于 2021-2-22 14:35
毕竟每个人情况不一样 ----> that is right, everyone is different.

i only speak from my personal expe ...

Intention is the most important issue

One time is OK, more than two times, IRD could do further review and trace back

Penalty and interest could be added

Very few people build the houses only for rent

IRD will also challenge your intention
作者: bungyjumping999    时间: 2021-2-22 15:58:42

hj_win_1 发表于 2021-2-22 15:50
Intention is the most important issue

One time is OK, more than two times, IRD could do further r ...

"Very few people build the houses only for rent" --------> there are many investors who did that, but many lack funding, that is why they need to sell, hence attract tax.

I don't want to mention the name, there is one person who owns the whole apartment block and didn't sell any single unit.
作者: 金庸大师    时间: 2021-2-22 16:00:12

本帖最后由 金庸大师 于 2021-2-22 16:02 编辑

那也不是，我们那条无尾街有四户都是盖了至少三栋房子出租的，最多的盖了五个。房东也都是中国人
作者: hj_win_1    时间: 2021-2-22 16:01:53

Lease 发表于 2021-2-22 14:19
嗯， 这个绝对是学到新知识了.

股神别被忽悠了，交不交税intention是最主要考量的因素，有多少人开发几套新房的intention只为了出租？99%是为了卖吧？
个人开发，等被IRD定义为developer的时候就等着哭了。。。开发，能用公司肯定用公司的。。。出任何问题，破产了事。
作者: zhong5487    时间: 2021-2-22 16:06:00

金庸大师 发表于 2021-2-22 16:00
那也不是，我们那条无尾街有四户都是盖了至少三栋房子出租的，最多的盖了五个。房东也都是中国人 ...

有自己工作有地又有点资本，又不想特别折腾的情况下，盖出点房子收租可能是性价比最高的投资了吧，挺多人就是不卖，收点租金就行了
作者: hj_win_1    时间: 2021-2-22 16:10:27

bungyjumping999 发表于 2021-2-22 14:58
"Very few people build the houses only for rent" --------> there are many investors who did that, b ...

U r right, if u have sufficeint fund to build and hold for a long period, no tax

If you change your intention, and do not hold enough period, IRD will challenge u

IRD will be late, but will not be absent
作者: hj_win_1    时间: 2021-2-22 16:10:53

金庸大师 发表于 2021-2-22 15:00
那也不是，我们那条无尾街有四户都是盖了至少三栋房子出租的，最多的盖了五个。房东也都是中国人 ...

卖了吗？没卖当然不交税
作者: bodyhaven    时间: 2021-2-22 16:21:02

只是投资房5年后卖不交税，地产开发肯定要交税啊。。。不然哪个开发商开100块地盖新房，捂手里5年再卖不交税，那怎么可能。。。
作者: Lease    时间: 2021-2-22 16:35:14

hj_win_1 发表于 2021-2-22 16:01
股神别被忽悠了，交不交税intention是最主要考量的因素，有多少人开发几套新房的intention只为了出租？99 ...

这个我觉得是 case by case的， 就拿那个说英语的网友情况来看， 他的投资房已经 hold 了8年， 现在在分割开发， 但完工之后， 假设一套房变成了六套， 而这六套他依然继续出租，不仅继续出租5年， 而且更长， 甚至再出租10年， 那么10年后他再把这六套房逐步逐步卖掉，那你觉得他当初的intention是什么呢？我觉得很难argue说他分割盖6套是一定为了卖.
作者: hj_win_1    时间: 2021-2-22 16:47:00

本帖最后由 hj_win_1 于 2021-2-22 15:50 编辑
Lease 发表于 2021-2-22 15:35
这个我觉得是 case by case的， 就拿那个说英语的网友情况来看， 他的投资房已经 hold 了8年， 现在在分 ...

第一次这么做，IRD认可了，当然不用交税；但是第二次就基本不可能这么操作了，IRD有所有买卖房子的记录的，绝对会被IRD盯上的，review是肯定的。开发商本来IRD就盯的紧，整一个咬下一口就是肥肉。而且说实话，有能力自有资金开发几套房子的，还有能力hold10年的土豪，真的不会这么干，多翻几次台，10年用来买地分割，再卖房赚的不比省的那些税多啊。。。捡了芝麻丢了西瓜啊。。。
作者: angelee123    时间: 2021-2-22 16:47:25

Lease 发表于 2021-2-22 16:35
这个我觉得是 case by case的， 就拿那个说英语的网友情况来看， 他的投资房已经 hold 了8年， 现在在分 ...

我觉得最好的方法是，hold+sell to developer+buy back then hold
当然了，这里面所有人都是自己人，只是看怎么操作，规避associated person的问题，原则是可行
作者: hj_win_1    时间: 2021-2-22 16:54:20

angelee123 发表于 2021-2-22 15:47
我觉得最好的方法是，hold+sell to developer+buy back then hold
当然了，这里面所有人都是自己人，只是 ...

还是老会计有办法。
但有资金能这么干的，规规矩矩多建几套房他不香吗？非要整这些容易被IRD盯上的。。。。。。
作者: bungyjumping999    时间: 2021-2-22 17:03:05

本帖最后由 bungyjumping999 于 2021-2-22 17:09 编辑

Many ordinary people do not want to be a developer. They probably do it once in their lifetime. i am one of those.

They just happened to be in this era and at this time and create / expanding their portfolio for stable income and early retirements.

Funding part - sell one property (from existing pool of property) and most construction costs are covered and some borrowed money from the bank and with low interest, there is no pressure at all.
作者: angelee123    时间: 2021-2-22 17:17:20

bungyjumping999 发表于 2021-2-22 17:03
Many ordinary people do not want to be a developer. They probably do it once in their lifetime. i am ...

其实我也想过这么干，但是，说实话，风险挺大的，就比如这个新的health home，比如你前几年盖了20栋联排收租，然后一个政策砸下来，让你加保温棉，一个房子加一下没多少钱，20个的话，那就吓死人了，万一再让你每个房子加上2个空调，再万一哪天出个政策，所有出租房必须加装双层玻璃。。。。。

又或者自己大地盖了公寓当包租公，万一漏个水啥的，本来是分摊每户十来万，这一下改成自己一个人掏几百上千万修，口袋不够深直接就挂了
作者: bungyjumping999    时间: 2021-2-22 17:20:53

本帖最后由 bungyjumping999 于 2021-2-22 17:30 编辑
angelee123 发表于 2021-2-22 17:17
其实我也想过这么干，但是，说实话，风险挺大的，就比如这个新的health home，比如你前几年盖了20栋联排 ...

The project is small, no need to worry too much. It is like selling One property in exchange for 5 townhouses like someone here has mentioned.

The design is based on lasting, durable, and standard spec (nothing luxurious), and the exterior wall has to be quality and low maintenance.
The cash flow will increase tremendously once the project is completed and once rent starts coming in. I don't worry much about government policy and spending on future maintenance ( they will be considered as a little issue by then).


The whole portfolio will be run in a business like by a property management company and one can choose hand-off and live between NZ and overseas.





作者: comsuntech    时间: 2021-2-22 17:22:07

angelee123 发表于 2021-2-22 17:17
其实我也想过这么干，但是，说实话，风险挺大的，就比如这个新的health home，比如你前几年盖了20栋联排 ...

羊毛出在羊身上，谁会自己掏钱加。都是转嫁给租户
作者: 金庸大师    时间: 2021-2-22 17:28:08

hj_win_1 发表于 2021-2-22 16:10
卖了吗？没卖当然不交税

三个房子是一个Title，multiunit。卖了应该不用交税。这么好的现金流一般不卖的
作者: 新马甸甸    时间: 2021-2-22 17:33:40

偶尔一次两次可以逃的掉，看有人一家几口名字轮流用的，不清楚能不能查得到。

但是专业作开发的话也挺压资金的。
作者: comsuntech    时间: 2021-2-22 17:43:03

新马甸甸 发表于 2021-2-22 17:33
偶尔一次两次可以逃的掉，看有人一家几口名字轮流用的，不清楚能不能查得到。

但是专业作开发的话也挺压资 ...

开发都不会用自己钱 都是银行和二级的钱。预售和楼花的钱起个地基。后面就稳了。
作者: zhong5487    时间: 2021-2-22 17:52:06

comsuntech 发表于 2021-2-22 17:43
开发都不会用自己钱 都是银行和二级的钱。预售和楼花的钱起个地基。后面就稳了。 ...

预售钱都是给trust account吧，自己能用？rc,bc都是自己钱对吧，盖的时候可以尽量二次银行，一次估计贷不出来的
作者: comsuntech    时间: 2021-2-22 17:58:21

zhong5487 发表于 2021-2-22 17:52
预售钱都是给trust account吧，自己能用？rc,bc都是自己钱对吧，盖的时候可以尽量二次银行，一次估计贷不 ...

预售的钱不能用为什么要预售，ps一张概念图就能起家的时代
作者: zhong5487    时间: 2021-2-22 18:11:11

comsuntech 发表于 2021-2-22 17:58
预售的钱不能用为什么要预售，ps一张概念图就能起家的时代

我看到卖家预售的说是百分之5 deposit放进trust account
作者: 新马甸甸    时间: 2021-2-22 18:34:00

本帖最后由 新马甸甸 于 2021-2-22 18:35 编辑
comsuntech 发表于 2021-2-22 17:43
开发都不会用自己钱 都是银行和二级的钱。预售和楼花的钱起个地基。后面就稳了。 ...

是啊，但是你贷款额度越来越高，银行还贷给你吗？除非你收入真的非常高。或者建的不多。看人了，看每年想盖多少。

二级的钱贷款建来出租，给贷款公司打工吗？
作者: 雾中原野    时间: 2021-2-22 22:04:30

hahahahahahahahahaha
作者: xli422    时间: 2021-2-23 00:12:13

开发完卖了一分钱都不交税 然后跑路回国 happy ending.......
作者: Lease    时间: 2021-2-23 08:25:45

comsuntech 发表于 2021-2-22 17:58
预售的钱不能用为什么要预售，ps一张概念图就能起家的时代

预售的目的是为了锁定买家以及出售价格，并不是为了用预售的钱来开发， 预收款必须进律师的 trust 账户，开发商是不能用的， 因为钱如果到了开发商手里， 万一项目中途流产，买家的预付款就会损失。这样的作法是为了保护买家.
作者: kammie    时间: 2021-3-15 03:36:16

bungyjumping999 发表于 2021-2-22 13:53
A general guideline will be 10 years to dispel "intention" to make a profit and is a genuine inve ...

請問找了工地經理然後在他的帮助下建完一套自住房，沒貸款然後放在trust 的名下，也是遵守這個十年規則嗎？目前住快三年了但離上班的地點太遠所以想賣，但不知道房子以什麼價值來交稅呢？謝謝！
作者: 金庸大师    时间: 2021-3-15 09:27:43

本帖最后由 金庸大师 于 2021-3-15 09:29 编辑
kammie 发表于 2021-3-15 03:36
請問找了工地經理然後在他的帮助下建完一套自住房，沒貸款然後放在trust 的名下，也是遵守這個十年規則嗎 ...

自住个人名下应该不用交税，但是如果你是累犯，那就跑不掉，这么大额的资金就不要问免费的咨询了，问问专业会计更好，不要因小失大。中间转了一次trust，就不知是啥情况了
作者: bungyjumping999    时间: 2021-3-26 23:42:30

kammie 发表于 2021-3-15 03:36
請問找了工地經理然後在他的帮助下建完一套自住房，沒貸款然後放在trust 的名下，也是遵守這個十年規則嗎 ...

If it is your family home (main home), bright-line does not apply to you.





作者: onetreehill1    时间: 2021-3-27 01:08:43

bungyjumping999 发表于 2021-2-22 13:28
Pay for professional accountant advice, ask them to put it in writing, even it costs $600-800

This  ...

Ｉhave a question about "hold for more than 10 years".  how to define this 10 years? start from settlement day of original property purchased to subdivision and construction completion day (the date of new houses CCC issued?)
作者: bungyjumping999    时间: 2021-3-27 10:17:36

本帖最后由 bungyjumping999 于 2021-3-27 10:36 编辑
onetreehill1 发表于 2021-3-27 01:08
Ｉhave a question about "hold for more than 10 years".  how to define this 10 years? start from se ...

This is on a "case to case basis"

I have owned the land since 2012, so more than 9 years for rental.

The construction will likely to complete in 2022 (with titles and CCC), and will continue to rent them out.

I will use 10 years from 2022 as a guideline, to dispel my intention to make a profit on the development project but purely to provide rental accommodation and will pay "rental income tax on them" (IR3).

To put it simply,  my intention was never to sell them, circumstances might change after 10 years, accountant said, I can easily get clearance from IRD.



As to recent tax changes, my opinion is "it will wipe out the weak, the strong will get stronger"




作者: onetreehill1    时间: 2021-3-27 16:10:33

bungyjumping999 发表于 2021-3-27 10:17
This is on a "case to case basis"

I have owned the land since 2012, so more than 9 years for renta ...

OK, my question is if someone is in similar situation as yours, in 2022 sell one house from the subdivided house pool to offset the subdivision and construction costs, will he be liable to pay tax for selling one house? the rest of houses will be rented out and surely will pay IR3 income tax for the rental income. (not a developer and it's life time only development)
作者: 挡风玻璃维修    时间: 2021-3-27 16:12:32

你们真能折腾 我买房都是起码hold10年起步 人年纪大了搞不过来
作者: bungyjumping999    时间: 2021-3-27 16:22:09

本帖最后由 bungyjumping999 于 2021-3-27 16:24 编辑
onetreehill1 发表于 2021-3-27 16:10
OK, my question is if someone is in similar situation as yours, in 2022 sell one house from the su ...

This question is very challenging.

I had thought of this question before, it is risky according to someone i talked to. There is a high chance IRD will see you as a developer if you do that.  The development can be contrued as substantial changing from the original site to a few lots (3 or more).

There is a definition of "what is substantial development" on the IRD website. A subdivision of 2 lots from the family house looks okay, this can be explained to IRD and might get an exemption.


If the development involving more than 2 lots and offered for sale subsequently (even just 1 lot), it is considered substantial and hence taxable activity.




作者: onetreehill1    时间: 2021-3-27 16:30:06

bungyjumping999 发表于 2021-3-27 16:22
This question is very challenging.

I had thought of this question before, it is risky according to ...

Ok，that means the LZ's accountant gave wrong advice, but some people in this post said his accountant might be right, so just confused.
作者: bungyjumping999    时间: 2021-3-27 16:43:45

本帖最后由 bungyjumping999 于 2021-3-27 16:47 编辑
onetreehill1 发表于 2021-3-27 16:30
Ok，that means the LZ's accountant gave wrong advice, but some people in this post said his accoun ...

The question by LZ to his accountant is on bright-line test.
The accountant answered the bright-line test correctly and it was discussed.


But LZ might not have asked for advice on "development, profit, and its implications" apart from the bright-line test. The development issues and tax involves more than just the bright-line test. that is why he said "我咨询了会计，是那么告诉我的，感觉那也太简单了"

I had an in-depth discussion with an accountant in this area and also do my own research, indeed, it is not as simple as that.



作者: 还是回国吧    时间: 2021-3-27 16:50:55

bungyjumping999 发表于 2021-3-27 16:43
The question by LZ to his accountant is on bright-line test.
The accountant answered the bright-lin ...

Depends on the quality of the accountant, the experience, the specific questions LZ asked, etc, etc, etc.

Discussing here is only for fun, ultimately, if the accountant stepped wrongly, IRD will come knocking, just ask that 新马 comrade...haha

作者: bungyjumping999    时间: 2021-3-27 16:52:21

还是回国吧 发表于 2021-3-27 16:50
Depends on the quality of the accountant, the experience, the specific questions LZ asked, etc, et ...

yes, comrade, you are always my hero.
作者: onetreehill1    时间: 2021-3-27 17:40:10

本帖最后由 onetreehill1 于 2021-3-27 17:43 编辑
bungyjumping999 发表于 2021-3-27 16:43
The question by LZ to his accountant is on bright-line test.
The accountant answered the bright-lin ...

If LZ accountant answered the bright-line test correctly, then I think LZ won't be worry about paying Tax, as he said in his another post===> http://bbs.skykiwi.com/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=4011536&extra=page%3D1   this could be his one time only development as he wanna retire early or go overseas to enjoy life, so I still think his accountant gave wrong advice or just dug a pit and induce LZ jump in to make more money from LZ?
作者: bungyjumping999    时间: 2021-3-27 18:02:57

本帖最后由 bungyjumping999 于 2021-3-27 18:08 编辑
onetreehill1 发表于 2021-3-27 17:40
If LZ accountant answered the bright-line test correctly, then I think LZ won't be worry about payi ...

yes, you are right.

That is why I need more than one opinion and my own investigations.

In the beginning, I was not sure and asked for written advice and paid the professional fee etc, In NZ, there is such thing as "negligent Misstatement" and professionals can be sued if they give wrong advice as they hold themselves up "as expert".


Also, there is no point to give a disclaimer, the Court will interpret if that disclaimer is valid in the circumstances and the consumer paid a fee for that advice.

I am serious about my planning and I know cheap/free advice can be useless.
作者: zhong5487    时间: 2021-3-28 20:29:37

bungyjumping999 发表于 2021-3-27 18:02
yes, you are right.

That is why I need more than one opinion and my own investigations.

今天听人说他一个朋友也是私人名下开发后没有卖，直接收到ird要预收gst的钱，以后卖了后多退少补，把盖出来的房子先给个预估价，按预估价交gst,你可以反驳，打官司就是，横竖都是交钱，到底有没靠谱会计，收费可以，没问题，有没有真的懂的会计啊，政府认定你是开发行为，怎么操作都是要割你一大刀的感觉。。。
早就听人说过，横算竖算，你都算不过政府，资本主义国家，褥羊毛
作者: bungyjumping999    时间: 2021-3-28 21:15:24

本帖最后由 bungyjumping999 于 2021-3-28 21:20 编辑
zhong5487 发表于 2021-3-28 20:29
今天听人说他一个朋友也是私人名下开发后没有卖，直接收到ird要预收gst的钱，以后卖了后多退少补，把盖出 ...

May be "his friend" is a registered GST person and has been claiming GST rebate for other projects.

If the person is already labelled as "developer", this "build and hold" won't work.


作者: zhong5487    时间: 2021-3-28 22:04:15

bungyjumping999 发表于 2021-3-28 21:15
May be "his friend" is a registered GST person and has been claiming GST rebate for other projects. ...

哦，还有那么一说，那可能是的，那个人就是有盖房子的，只是分割是私人名下第一次，我就觉得普通人一个大地私人名下，都没卖还要交什么预估值的gst太不合理了，都没有利润，怎么交，你说的还挺有道理的
作者: 是个狼灭    时间: 2021-3-29 17:26:35

你会计的证是假的吧，要不要找找我的会计
作者: zhong5487    时间: 2021-3-29 19:04:15

是个狼灭 发表于 2021-3-29 17:26
你会计的证是假的吧，要不要找找我的会计

好啊，私信我一下联系方式呗，谢谢啦，好会计真的难找
作者: bungyjumping999    时间: 2021-3-29 21:06:34

本帖最后由 bungyjumping999 于 2021-3-29 21:12 编辑

http://bbs.skykiwi.com/forum.php ... 2218&extra=page%3D1

this lady sounds knowledgeable and is relevant to what we discussed here.
作者: zhong5487    时间: 2021-3-29 22:17:04

bungyjumping999 发表于 2021-3-29 21:06
http://bbs.skykiwi.com/forum.php ... 2218&extra=page%3D1

this lady sounds knowledgeable and is rele ...

谢谢你啊，我问问看去，这些讲座都挺好，就是时间太长，听着费劲，要是小编整理一下成文字就好了，几分钟就看完了
作者: peach1012    时间: 2021-4-2 11:49:10

bungyjumping999 发表于 2021-2-22 17:03
Many ordinary people do not want to be a developer. They probably do it once in their lifetime. i am ...

哥们你好，看了几个你的回复，方不方便粗略的问几个关于你的开发策略的问题 ？

你提到，卖出手上一套房产，然后再贷款，这样造房子的钱就有了。请问下是你当初买房的现金储量特别大吗，不然我我理解的是，如果如果100多万的房子，基本上贷款也有4，5成吧，这样卖掉，好像也没多少钱呀？感觉不够你去造4 -5 个联排 ？
另外，土地的开发贷款，期限不是都挺短的吗？我听说好像几年就要还了，如果你造好了房子不卖，怎么还上贷款呢？租金再多也没法一下子还上贷款吧？
最后，这个土地储备是不是要在很早以前就要进行了？
期待回复。谢谢。
作者: zhong5487    时间: 2021-4-2 13:49:07

peach1012 发表于 2021-4-2 11:49
哥们你好，看了几个你的回复，方不方便粗略的问几个关于你的开发策略的问题 ？

你提到，卖出手上一套房 ...

别的我不确定，但是卖掉房子，那个房子可能你买来100万，贷款60万，但是现在可以卖150了啊，难道原价卖啊，那不就手里多了70.80万了，储备地的话当然便宜的时候储备才好，19年100万，现在要150万，肯定早搞早好啊，问题是之前大家都不懂屯大地，懂的时候普通人大地下手就很困难了

我自己房子我是要一分四个独栋，总共面积600多点平米，之前我还想着2000一平包税可以盖起来，也就120万，在加分割费40万好了，开发出来准备165左右应该够了，现在2000可盖不出来，我估计我得准备200万开发成本才能够，反正计划不如变化的
作者: bungyjumping999    时间: 2021-4-2 13:57:46

本帖最后由 bungyjumping999 于 2021-4-2 14:08 编辑
peach1012 发表于 2021-4-2 11:49
哥们你好，看了几个你的回复，方不方便粗略的问几个关于你的开发策略的问题 ？

你提到，卖出手上一套房 ...

that is a good question.

The property I am selling was purchased in 2005 for $300k and is now mortgage-free. So can bring in some $ for the project.
When tofu was buying units, I bought full site properties. At that time, many criticized as "poor cash flow" but I made it to the end and now mostly mortgage-free due to low interest. Also, I only invest in North shore, my targetted market.




作者: peach1012    时间: 2021-4-3 21:05:06

zhong5487 发表于 2021-4-2 13:49
别的我不确定，但是卖掉房子，那个房子可能你买来100万，贷款60万，但是现在可以卖150了啊，难道原价卖啊 ...

我是个新手所以谢谢你的分享。
那后来你的开发计划仍在进行吗？还是搁置了？我问的后面那个问题有了解过吗？开发项目的商业贷款是不是真的周期很短呢？
作者: peach1012    时间: 2021-4-3 21:06:54

bungyjumping999 发表于 2021-4-2 13:57
that is a good question.

The property I am selling was purchased in 2005 for $300k and is now mort ...

谢谢大佬分享哈。

看来你是那种享受到了地产红利，现金量比较充足的人。这么看来，那么你开发完毕，不卖房子，就拿着，也是能一下子还清开发贷款的对吗？
还是说你其实钱多到，根本不用贷款救能开发了？谢谢哈
作者: zhong5487    时间: 2021-4-3 22:40:31

peach1012 发表于 2021-4-3 21:05
我是个新手所以谢谢你的分享。
那后来你的开发计划仍在进行吗？还是搁置了？我问的后面那个问题有了解过 ...

还在进行，我了解了私人借贷，太贵了，要百分之12.但是打款快，没有要求，商业贷款也费劲的，给钱也费劲，一步一步给，批也严格，我想着等bc下来了再看吧，新手最好是用四大银行的利率才负担的起，实在不行，盖的时候卖房拿钱盖吧，反正利息也不抵税了，慢慢弄吧，走一步看一步，总而言之，这个钱没有想象的那么好赚了，前几年那批盖的早的确实赚钱的，以后会越来越难，新手，现金流少的，谨慎为妙



欢迎光临 新西兰天维网社区 (http://bbs.skykiwi.com/) Powered by Discuz! X2