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标题: 又来问问题了-请教懂的人 [打印本页]

作者: zyan024 时间: 2018-5-23 11:24:55 标题: 又来问问题了-请教懂的人

最近又看重一套房子
BUILDING　REPORT已经做了，没什么问题，砖瓦房
律师昨天发来邮件说有些问题需要注意
以下是律师原话：
Please note the owner's obligation under the Consent Notice and Land covenants. In particular, please note that:
1. Under Cl 2 of the Variation of land covenant, if the floor area of the property is less than 160 sqm (floor area to be exclusive of garage, carports, decking, breezeways and roof overhang) then the plans and specification need to be approved by the grantee.
2. The dwelling should meet various requirements noted in the Land covenant.

这个房子室内面积是１９３平方，除去车库（正常应该是３６平方）只有157平方，离问题1中所说160平方仅差3平方

这个房子是私卖，昨晚跟屋主沟通了一下，他说他去COUNCIL问过，COUNCIL说不用管
CCC什么的都有
这个房子不在奥克兰

请教下懂行的朋友，这会是个问题吗？先谢谢拉

作者: 陌生的香港人 时间: 2018-5-23 11:59:59

Covenants 和Council 沒半點關係是民事上的事情真的要問Council 的是他說的consent notices

作者: lianlian88 时间: 2018-5-23 12:21:17

你这屋子是crosslease的，还是别的啥？感觉你要搞清谁是guarantee，谁是guarantor？

作者: bungyjumping999 时间: 2018-5-23 13:52:25

本帖最后由 bungyjumping999 于 2018-5-23 13:55 编辑

lianlian88 发表于 2018-5-23 12:21
你这屋子是crosslease的，还是别的啥？感觉你要搞清谁是guarantee，谁是guarantor？ ...

haha.... is grantor and grantee. In this case, covenant in the title - covenantor and covenantee.

Grantor = the person who give
Grantee= the person who receive.

nothing to do with guarantee.

作者: zyan024 时间: 2018-5-23 13:59:42

陌生的香港人发表于 2018-5-23 11:59
Covenants 和Council 沒半點關係是民事上的事情真的要問Council 的是他說的consent notices ...

那这个Land covenant需不需要注意啊？

作者: zyan024 时间: 2018-5-23 14:01:28

lianlian88 发表于 2018-5-23 12:21
你这屋子是crosslease的，还是别的啥？感觉你要搞清谁是guarantee，谁是guarantor？ ...

是FREE HOLD

我搞不清什么GRANTEE和GRANTOR，感觉是当时土地分割时产生的

作者: zyan024 时间: 2018-5-23 14:06:27

bungyjumping999 发表于 2018-5-23 13:52
haha.... is grantor and grantee. In this case, covenant in the title - covenantor and covenantee.
...

you are absolutely right

it seems that Grantor gave the whole land to Grantee then Grantee divided the land to different lots then sold each lot to different people
in my case, the person who bought the lot and built the house didn't meet the requirement made by Grantor, do you think it is gonna be a problem?
I personally don't think the Grantor will come back to check us, however according to Murphy's Law, anything could happen, I really don't want this becomes an issue later on.

作者: zyan024 时间: 2018-5-23 14:20:48

陌生的香港人发表于 2018-5-23 11:59
Covenants 和Council 沒半點關係是民事上的事情真的要問Council 的是他說的consent notices ...

请教一下
如你所说这个CONVENANTS是民事上的事 COUNCIL肯定对盖房子有各种要求
可是那里面为什么还有那么多对房子的要求比如为什么要要求这个房子的FLOOR PLAN一定是多少多少
如果没满足，会怎么样呢？

作者: bungyjumping999 时间: 2018-5-23 14:32:37

本帖最后由 bungyjumping999 于 2018-5-23 14:45 编辑

zyan024 发表于 2018-5-23 14:06
you are absolutely right

it seems that Grantor gave the whole land to Grantee then Grantee divid ...

the purpose of the covenant is to protect the neighbourhood and control the development area as noted in the covenant and sometimes, consent notice.

In this case, the grantor and grantee include their successor in titles ( meaning to say who ever take the title that include your neighbours and yourself in the position of grantor and grantee who can enforce the covenant against each other for breach of covenant (if any) ).

some covenant including not blocking seaview from neighbours....... how serious it is in terms of seaview? The neighbour will take it very seriously and will enforce it in the form of civil action in court, that has happened in mission bay etc.

Other thing such as fencing, people might not take it too seriously, but it is against the covenant if someone is to built a fence of more than 3 metre high if covenant forbid it in certain neighbourhoods.

You never know who will be your neighbours, you might have a nutty neighbour who like to go to court to challenge breach of covenant ? by then, haha........

作者: 陌生的香港人 时间: 2018-5-23 17:00:44

本帖最后由陌生的香港人于 2018-5-23 17:03 编辑

zyan024 发表于 2018-5-23 14:20
请教一下
如你所说这个CONVENANTS是民事上的事 COUNCIL肯定对盖房子有各种要求
可是那里面为什么还有那 ...

這個你需要你那律師告訴你了還是那句 covenants 是你們之間的合同 council是不會管的不滿足的話另一方可以控告你上法庭就是了

回樓上covenant 和 consent notice 不是同一樣東西 consent notice 是council 可以enforce 的是resource management act 下的產物 covenant 則不是而planning controls也已經規定了fence 的最高高度是多少一般是建不了3米的（例如奧克蘭的unitary plan只能建到2米）所以不用covenant 來保護除非之前鄰居特別挑剔說甚至不能超過1.5米而另一方受約束的又同意這個要求那就可以用covenant形式保障下來可是有問題的話這不是council 的責任

作者: zyan024 时间: 2018-5-25 09:55:24

bungyjumping999 发表于 2018-5-23 14:32
the purpose of the covenant is to protect the neighbourhood and control the development area as not ...

in this case, apparently there is a breach of Land covenant against floor plan by 3sqm and this is the only breach.

don't think any neighbours will care about this, only concern for us is that there might be difficulty for selling later on.

any suggestion if we should give up or keep pursuing? thanks a lot anyway.

作者: zyan024 时间: 2018-5-25 09:57:43

陌生的香港人发表于 2018-5-23 17:00
這個你需要你那律師告訴你了還是那句 covenants 是你們之間的合同 council是不會管的不滿足的話另一方可 ...

是的，律师说了：
The land covenant is nothing to do with council, it is a private treaty between the developer and the individual owner

现在又开始纠结了，到底该不该买
买个称心的房子真不容易啊

作者: somebody 时间: 2018-5-25 10:57:36

所以就是这个房子即使council批准也不能加建？

作者: zyan024 时间: 2018-5-25 11:52:55

somebody 发表于 2018-5-25 10:57
所以就是这个房子即使council批准也不能加建？

这个房子已经建了，现在在卖
COUNCIL也都批了，CCC什么的都有

作者: somebody 时间: 2018-5-25 12:22:39

zyan024 发表于 2018-5-25 11:52
这个房子已经建了，现在在卖
COUNCIL也都批了，CCC什么的都有

说的是以后加建

作者: 房奴甲 时间: 2018-5-25 12:23:56

zyan024 发表于 2018-5-25 11:52
这个房子已经建了，现在在卖
COUNCIL也都批了，CCC什么的都有

理论上讲任何时候人家都可以找回来说不行要拆掉的。

作者: zyan024 时间: 2018-5-25 14:52:15

房奴甲发表于 2018-5-25 12:23
理论上讲任何时候人家都可以找回来说不行要拆掉的。

理论上是的，GRANTEE可以回来找
但实际上这种可能性小之又小实在不行，可以再扩建一下，3sqm很容易满足

作者: bungyjumping999 时间: 2018-5-26 09:41:41

本帖最后由 bungyjumping999 于 2018-5-26 09:55 编辑

zyan024 发表于 2018-5-25 14:52
理论上是的，GRANTEE可以回来找
但实际上这种可能性小之又小实在不行，可以再扩建一下，3sqm很容易满足 ...

you are the grantor and your neighbours are grantee once you own the house and they can enforce the covenants on you.

you are grantee to your neighrbours once your own the house and you can enforce the covenants to your neighbours that they comply as well.

Sometimes, there is a clause to say that the house design must be approved by the developer ( a consent chop) at the time it is submitted to the council for building consent. The purpose of developer consent is a form of controlling that it complied with the covenants designed for the development area.

Take for example, the hobsonville development would have a strict covenant due to its density, the covenant would control any exterior renovation (eg adding of deck, awning). They are freehold site with 200 sq m. Covenant is a way to control owners' behaviours.

Another example is where to put the recycle bins....... haha.. the covenant actually set out the details where recycle bins are to be placed.

i mentioned about fencing previouly, it might have been misunderstood. Some covenants actually forbid fencing at the front part of the house. The development area strictly prefer open space concept.

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