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标题: tech lead（software） 转做 Solution Architect(SA) 经验分享 [打印本页]
作者: ybbest 时间: 2016-8-17 17:10:57 标题: tech lead（software） 转做 Solution Architect(SA) 经验分享
本帖最后由 ybbest 于 2016-8-31 10:12 编辑
从tech lead（software） 转做 Solution Architect(SA) 快一年了，和大家分享一下这一年的感受吧。 希望可以给想要做SA的朋友一个方向。我自从有了孩子以后就从软件的外包公司转到了企业里了，因为外包公司里的SA很多都要做pre-sale，而我觉得作为英语是第二语言的话，这很困难而且机会很少。一般的企业中都会有一个Architecture team，所以机会还是有的。虽然作为英语是第二语言的人做这个职位有一定难度，不过通过自己的努力还是可以胜任的。
等真正做到SA以后，才觉得这个工作和想象当中的真的有很多差距。我一直觉得，SA就是Tech lead++ ，但是真的不是这样。 除了对于技术要求外，，对于communication ， writing ， presentation 的要求真的很高 还要了解公司的office politics，总之很多技术意外的soft skills要学。我一开始做的时候一定会感觉很有压力，很不适应,不过我经理和我说过，you know you are learning when you feel uncomfortable. 这是一个学习的过程，不要放弃，适应一段时间就会好了。
***************************自己工作的感受**************************
1.做developer的时候你所关注更多的是functional requirement，作为SA你更多的是要分析non-functional requirment。要知道怎么去取得这些requirement，分析这些requirement，这些non-functional requirement怎么影响你的design.
2. 我是做software出身的，觉得做SA以后欠缺很多network和infrastructure的知识，这对你做SA绝对有帮助。比如 security applicances 都用什么用（ F5 or netscalor）， 还有公司内部datacenter 的基本的design。
3. 要知道 Identity management，SSO ，authentication。
4. Cloud觉得是趋势，如果你的工作当中还没有接触到的话，你可能需要换工作了。
5. 在开会的时候不要问你自己都不知道怎么回答的问题，不要问。作为SA，当别人都不知道怎么回答的时候，大家觉得SA应给给大家解答。
6. 有机会可以去一些architecture conference或者CIO conference。如果公司没法让你去的话可以去网上搜搜，看看decision maker搜在想什么。CIO videos https://www.ciosummit.co.nz/cio-summit/2016-videos 里面有不少值得看看的视频。
7.Enterprise Agile 和 Digital transformation 也是趋势，作为SA要学习怎么让自己在agile 环境下工作。现在不只是在说Minimal viable product （MVP), 还有Minimal viable Architecture.
8.Communication skills 不是说你英语是第一语言就一定很好，他们有优势，可是不代表他们的communication skills就一定很好。很多技巧不是天生的，是后天培养的，比如being assertive ， showing empathy， deliver bad news in a good news sandwinch. 可以去youtube是搜搜，很多很好的training.
9. 要有快速学习的能力，developer的时候更多的时候是看看API 或者是SDK 的documentation，或者搜搜blog。做了SA以后，更多的时候要去读很多技术或者产品的white pager， reference architecture , 一开始估计会感觉和枯燥。还要要去懂得怎么去review vendor的design document。
以下是我这一年自己学习的一些东西，希望可以帮到想往这方面发展的朋友。
***************************学习的技能*************************
1. Togaf ， 这个学起来很无聊，但是还是很有用的,虽然这是给Enterprise Architect准备的，不过对SA也有帮助。公司给我花钱去了training，但是网上同样的training很便宜。
https://www.udemy.com/togaf-enterprise-architect/
https://www.udemy.com/togaf-part2/
https://www.pluralsight.com/courses/togaf-9-1-enterprise-architecture-framework-overview
https://www.pluralsight.com/courses/understanding-enterprise-architecture
2. Safaribooksonline 有很多很好的介绍SA工作的教程，很不错，有机会的可以去看看，有机会了解一些SA日常都做什么，都学要什么样的技能。
https://www.safaribooksonline.com/library/view/learning-path-issues/9781491960967/part00.html?autoStart=True
https://www.safaribooksonline.com/library/view/learning-path-software/9781491957974/video229291.html?autoStart=True
https://www.safaribooksonline.com/library/view/learning-path-resource-oriented/9781491960981/
https://www.safaribooksonline.com/library/view/learning-path-architect/9781491958124
3.工作中需要和很多人打交道，为了避免冲突，一定要学习怎么说话，Being Assertive is a must , 如果你不了解的话，可以看看以下视频。
Assertiveness Basics
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufvn-Z4F2MI&list=PLhL_X9YHDDE4_Rdl5UwndQZD3QwIc08jz
Learning to Be Assertive
https://www.lynda.com/Business-Business-Skills-tutorials/Learning-Assertive/175640-2.html
Effective Listening
https://www.lynda.com/Business-Skills-tutorials/Effective-Listening/176760-2.html
Professional Communication Skills
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J58_e_IYV4k&list=PLq-0mUo3GUDrx5hIxWwjVStLzKEsZokEn
4. Soft Skills Every Software Developer Should Know
https://channel9.msdn.com/events/Xamarin-Evolve/2016/5-Soft-Skills-Every-Software-Developer-Should-Know
5. Storry telling , if you as SA can not tell a good story then your decision maker will ask an expensive consultant tell them. Learn how to tell a good story.
https://channel9.msdn.com/events/Ignite/Microsoft-Ignite-New-Zealand-2015/M112
https://channel9.msdn.com/Events/TechEd/NewZealand/2013/ARC214
SA Blog
http://softwarearchitecturezen.blogspot.co.nz
http://ruthmalan.com/
怎样才能做到SA的职位呢？
1. 要有过硬的技术背景，而且要不断的学习，我是developer 背景，做了SA以后要学习很多infrastructure , network , security 的知识。最好把自己搞成V-shaped skills not T-Shaped 的人才。可以看看这个blog post .
2.在你坐在的公司内找一个SA 做你的mentor，多和他们打交道，问问他么都在做什么，公司的发展方向是什么.自己制定一个学习计划。
3. 看看公司内部的Architecute design document ,看看公司用什么tools 做modelling。好好学习这种工具，还有就是要学习Visio,Powerpoint。一般visio 和 PPT 还是比较被business stakeholder 接受。
一些我以前经理说的东西，我觉得还是有用的：
1.我一个经理和我说过你要想不学习的那么辛苦，就要寻找在IT里更新不那么快的技能和职位，这样才能给你时间学习这种技能去变成专家，这种技能也更值钱。
2.当你在做一个新的职位或在现有的职位的时候感觉不适应或者很累的时候，说明你在学东西在爬坡，而爬坡的最佳角度是45度。也就是在工作中可以接触50%新的东西，是最好的搭配。
3. SA is a problem solver , the approach to solve the problem is very important.
How to negotiate salary
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XY5SeCl_8NE&list=PLPZCUlZ2z01moBi3zjrNzbuIeyu3zW0Kf
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icuSn3k9Euk
作者: 巴依老爷 时间: 2016-8-17 17:21:40
必须精华
作者: ybbest 时间: 2016-8-17 18:59:57
巴依老爷 发表于 2016-8-17 17:21 
必须精华
谢谢了。。。。
作者: technerd 时间: 2016-8-17 19:39:34
厉害，恭喜ybbest升职！
作者: 朱老大 时间: 2016-8-17 22:07:36
提示: 该帖被管理员或版主屏蔽
作者: NewLynnHse 时间: 2016-8-17 22:49:18
我感觉很多SA的想法太过完美主义，一开始就要把东西做到完美，全部的scenario都要cater，最后变成over engineering。。。哈哈
所以我估计这辈子都不能当SA，因为我太随便了
作者: technerd 时间: 2016-8-18 08:34:58
NewLynnHse 发表于 2016-8-17 22:49
我感觉很多SA的想法太过完美主义，一开始就要把东西做到完美，全部的scenario都要cater，最后变成over engi ...
那over engineering导致项目无法按时交付的时候， SA有没有负责？还是你来背这个锅？
作者: keepower 时间: 2016-8-18 08:38:59
一个好的BA能帮你解决很多问题
作者: liuruihua 时间: 2016-8-18 09:36:53
What is the solution architect's salary range compare to senior software developer? Is it easy to get job as solution architect?
作者: ybbest 时间: 2016-8-18 10:03:42
liuruihua 发表于 2016-8-18 09:36
What is the solution architect's salary range compare to senior software developer? Is it easy to ge ...
As Junior SA , your salary would be very similar to what you get as Tech lead. But I believe SA will help me grow your career further.
作者: ybbest 时间: 2016-8-18 10:12:13
NewLynnHse 发表于 2016-8-17 22:49
我感觉很多SA的想法太过完美主义，一开始就要把东西做到完美，全部的scenario都要cater，最后变成over engi ...
其实有同感了，不过SA并不是decision maker 。只是很多时候你可能只接触SA ， SA 要接触公司内部很多妖魔鬼怪，最后出的决定也是各个部门妥协后的结果。如果SA的coummunication能力不是很高的话，再传达这些决定给developer，IT Pro的时候可能就会出现你感觉的情况。 这样的SA可能就像我一样，就仅仅是SA，还不是是一个leader，说话的技巧和能力都有限。
作者: ybbest 时间: 2016-8-18 10:13:11
keepower 发表于 2016-8-18 08:38
一个好的BA能帮你解决很多问题
是啊，可以帮的很多很多。
作者: shixiawg 时间: 2016-8-18 11:29:49
多谢加上个人体会的部分。这回读起来不dry啦~
作者: liuruihua 时间: 2016-8-18 11:56:52
I think if I want to be my own boss, then I have to do sales myself. Otherwise I would rather just write software instead of do presales.
作者: markfu 时间: 2016-8-18 17:48:31
哇 哇 不错哦！！加油！！ 哈哈 居然做到了 SA 我的 未来职业规划 能到这个地步 也行啦
作者: technerd 时间: 2016-8-18 19:29:05
liuruihua 发表于 2016-8-18 09:36
What is the solution architect's salary range compare to senior software developer? Is it easy to ge ...
SAP solution architect薪水就很高，当然SAP其他职位薪水都比较高。
Solution Architect和 senior software developer 在有的公司都是有可能要lead 一个team，mentor其他engineer的，所以薪水和team leader以及development manager有可能相近。
senior software developer其实跨度很大，光是title说明不了问题。你做了这么多年，可能也还是叫senior software developer，但薪水可能就比新手高很多。
作者: liuruihua 时间: 2016-8-18 21:08:54
technerd 发表于 2016-8-18 19:29
SAP solution architect薪水就很高，当然SAP其他职位薪水都比较高。
Solution Architect和 senior soft ...
Thanks for your answer.
I know anything related to sap is dear. The customer who was developing a website using sap system spent around aud700k in two years and decided to give up and use the website I wrote in asp.net mvc. :-)
I never work with a solution architect in my 22 years career and I am thinking what kind of company will use a solution architect?
作者: MSSA 时间: 2016-8-18 21:53:13
liuruihua 发表于 2016-8-18 21:08
Thanks for your answer.
I know anything related to sap is dear. The customer who was developing a ...
需要architect的地方多了去了，大的corporate和大的software house基本都需要。一般来说corporate的需求量大一些。
5，6个人的小start-up或者10几个人的小作坊当然没必要这个级别的职位。
作者: ctai010 时间: 2016-8-18 23:07:50
Well said. Congratulation on the new job. Personally I felt Chinese is very under-represented in NZ, well done to LZ. I think Chines IT professional (exclude local born) is generally committed, hard working, typically not trouble maker and in most cases, they know what they are doing :)
I've spend a few years in SA and moved to EA since this year, and just want share my 2 cents.
Successful Architect depend on 3 skills,
1. Knowledge
2. Imagination
3. Convection
If you work on consulting / outsource / vendor side, skill 1 and 2 is more important.
If you work on client / enterprise side, skill 3 is more important.
Knowledge and Imagination is self-explanatory and I won't elaborate further. I just want talk about convection - it's the most important skill out of all three. It's also the hardest to master.
What do I mean by convection? It means make your team believe "we can do it". This is particularly relevant at highly complex project, i.e. 20+ integration points with evolving dependent systems (literately like shooting a moving target), plus reducing budget and increasing scope because CEO need meet the financial year target in order to get his bonus.
It's not about 忽悠, your peers generally able to see through your BS in less than 1 second. It's about a combination of thing that LZ summerised very well. Best of luck to LZ and everyone else. Sincerely hope to see more of us do well in this industry and please don't hesitate to ask any questions.
Lastly, TOGAF is like 國王的新衣, that's all I have to say about it.
作者: 117wik 时间: 2016-8-19 07:46:02
本帖最后由 117wik 于 2016-8-19 08:03 编辑
ctai010 发表于 2016-8-18 23:07
Well said. Congratulation on the new job. Personally I felt Chinese is very under-represented in NZ, ...
I think more of us should be more public about what we do, to give some hope to some younger generation that it is technically possible, for 1st generation chinese, to get somewhere locally. (seems to have a lot of negative perception, re it's impposible for chinese like us to compete and break through the ceilling - although i have to admit, we end up having to work twice as hard compare to local people, to get to where we are today).
Today i am a "tech lead（security） 转做 Team Manager", managing a team of 22. Likely my team is going to grow to a team of 30 in the next 12 months. My greatest contribution so far is to be able to lead and shape the future of some of company's product, which will hopefully help company achieve their business goal.
Out of the 3 skills you listed, i also want to add, knowing how to play the same office politic game helps, having the connection to the industry is a big plus too.
Well done ctai010 (if you don't mind me asking, who do you work for today?)
作者: liuruihua 时间: 2016-8-19 08:51:32
MSSA 发表于 2016-8-18 21:53
需要architect的地方多了去了，大的corporate和大的software house基本都需要。一般来说corporate的需求 ...
I used to work in a software house has around 50 developers worldwide and the company does not have that, only lots of senior developers with manager title.
作者: ybbest 时间: 2016-8-19 09:37:43
liuruihua 发表于 2016-8-19 08:51
I used to work in a software house has around 50 developers worldwide and the company does not hav ...
SA is quite a different role than a Senior Developer or Manager role. Developer focus more on delivery phase or design pattern used in writing code.
SA need to engage with the work much early on even before the work become a project. It will help business to build a High-level design to get approval from company's Design review board to make sure the solution is in compliance with company design principle and long-term strategy . E.g. The cloud SAAS solution must integrate with company's ADFS server to provide SSO. OR the System A is going to be replaced by system B in 3 years , so no customization or enhancement can be deployed to system A unless it is for bug fixes.
SA will get some high-level cost to help with business to build the business case ( GET the funding). Once the business is approved to become a project , SA is responsible for overseeing the whole delivery of the project . SA will then get the detail design completed. The detailed design might not involve how to write code but where the code deploy to. Firewall rule ,detailed network design , how many new servers we need to purchase. How to provide HA ,DR,Security or PCI compliance... Sometimes we do work with vendor or technology Architect (SAP architect , or Salesforce architect) to help us understand a specific technology.But as SA on the project , we own the project from end to end, i.e. from the server turned on until the server turn off.
作者: ybbest 时间: 2016-8-19 09:43:59
ctai010 发表于 2016-8-18 23:07
Well said. Congratulation on the new job. Personally I felt Chinese is very under-represented in NZ, ...
Congrats on your new EA role , maybe you should share your journey with us about how to step up from SA to EA , EA is definitely my next career aspiration for the next 5 years.
I am studying for the TOGAF exam now , it is still useful for new Architect but it might not be a practical tool to be used in New Zealand. But again , I can not comment too much on this as I have not work in EA level , but it is the only certification that mentioned in most of Architect job ad in NZ.
作者: liuruihua 时间: 2016-8-19 09:51:53
本帖最后由 liuruihua 于 2016-8-19 11:12 编辑
ybbest 发表于 2016-8-19 09:37
SA is quite a different role than a Senior Developer or Manager role. Developer focus more on deliv ...
Thanks for the answer.
I think that I am a Solution Architect for my own projects from what you said. I own the projects from end to end, i.e. from the server turned on until the server turn off. :-) The project serves web requests 200k rps using golang version 1.7 mysql, redis on latest centos on two e5620 16 virtual cpu with 40gb ram on a 512gb samsung evo 500gb drive using dell 2700w ups for chinese stock share price analysis. :-) I worked in stock share business since 1995.
作者: technerd 时间: 2016-8-19 11:58:59
liuruihua 发表于 2016-8-18 21:08
Thanks for your answer.
I know anything related to sap is dear. The customer who was developing a ...
没有Solution Architect正常。
偏重 企业应用和系统集成的，可能更需要Solution Architect. 在众多第三方的软件产品和IT设备的基础上做functional level的设计，满足某一企业的业务应用。
主要做 产品研发的，可能没有Solution Architect. 或者只是等到组织很庞大才找专人做这个事。
没有Solution Architect这个title没关系，同样的事情可能由Implementation Consultant， 或者Software Architect,或者Senior Developer 做了。
如果公司雇了你这样的老油条，基本不是特别需要再雇一个Solutioni Architect，全部由你来做就行。最多配个Implementation Consultant做pre-sales,和一个Service Desk做售后。
作者: liuruihua 时间: 2016-8-19 12:09:24
technerd 发表于 2016-8-19 11:58
没有Solution Architect正常。
偏重 企业应用和系统集成的，可能更需要Solution Architect. 在众多第三 ...
Yes, you are right.
I used to work in a team around 3 people as qa, 6 developers and one business analyst and one manager for a web project and now my boss and the general manager as sales and I am the developer do the rest including qa, support etc and the customer size is around 10 times bigger than the team with lots of people to do desktop/mobile website, integration, android/ios app.
作者: ybbest 时间: 2016-8-19 17:25:01
technerd 发表于 2016-8-19 11:58
没有Solution Architect正常。
偏重 企业应用和系统集成的，可能更需要Solution Architect. 在众多第三 ...
小一点公司没有，如果想往这方面发张就要找有这样一个 architecture team的公司，一般大一点的公司都会有。
作者: ctai010 时间: 2016-8-19 22:19:23
117wik 发表于 2016-8-19 07:46
I think more of us should be more public about what we do, to give some hope to some younger genera ...
I work for Sky TV now. (the most hated company in NZ....)
Before that I got most of my SA experience from Telco across NZ / AUS, Spark, Vodafone, Telstra etc...
I was lucky to be involved in very large transformation programs while I was with them, such as Re-engineering at Spark, Digital Engineering at Tesltra. I guess those experience helped my career a lot.
作者: ctai010 时间: 2016-8-19 22:32:06
ybbest 发表于 2016-8-19 09:43
Congrats on your new EA role , maybe you should share your journey with us about how to step up fr ...
thank you.
Although there really isn't anything for share.
I didn't really set any goals to became EA. My mind is all about been a better architect, that's it. In one occasion I got lucky and got offered a EA role.
Perhaps I should share why I didn't actively pursue the path of EA.
1. Difference between EA and SA isn't that clear. Some big corporate don't even have EA role.
2. You mentioned a key concept - Enterprise Agile. Does it means EA role will become obsolete in future? That's the million dollar question.
3. At any given time, if you go to Seek, SA job opening will out-number EA at 10-1 or more. Isn't SA have better job security? Although you can still apply SA job even if your last job is EA.
4. Do you really get paid more as EA? not necessarily. You get paid more by taking contracting role. Even dev contacting role can pay more than perm EA role.
作者: ctai010 时间: 2016-8-19 22:37:56
本帖最后由 ctai010 于 2016-8-19 22:39 编辑
On the subject of improve communication skill, I'm the biggest fan of 罗辑思维.
Their episode 3 weeks ago is about communication, I thoroughly recommend it to anyone wanting to improve communication skill. Must watch (actually every single episode of 罗辑思维 is must watch...)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyrcM2ypytQ
作者: MSSA 时间: 2016-8-19 23:44:17
liuruihua 发表于 2016-8-19 08:51
I used to work in a software house has around 50 developers worldwide and the company does not hav ...
SA这种角色corporate需要的最多，因为在corporate里，SA不但要和dev team打交道还要跟business打交道，和各种stakeholder周旋，需要很强的communication的能力。吹牛逼的本领一定要有，但不是瞎吹，而是带技术含量的吹。而且SA的domain knowledge都比较过硬。
从你描述来看你的地方应该不会需要这样的角色。
作者: 117wik 时间: 2016-8-20 08:11:54
ctai010 发表于 2016-8-19 22:19
I work for Sky TV now. (the most hated company in NZ....)
Before that I got most of my SA experie ...
Do you know Steve L (head of Security), Brad Kiti (solution architect?) as well as Bruce X (Dev ops engineer?) ?? All from ex spark. :)
作者: ctai010 时间: 2016-8-20 21:52:38
117wik 发表于 2016-8-20 08:11
Do you know Steve L (head of Security), Brad Kiti (solution architect?) as well as Bruce X (Dev op ...
yeah know them all...
2 of my projects is waiting Steve's security approval, I don't have a good feeling about it...
Brad's shoes is hard to miss
Had a few good chat with Bruce, but his not working on my projects, so didn't got much chance to work together with him.
作者: ybbest 时间: 2016-8-23 09:11:18
MSSA 发表于 2016-8-19 23:44
SA这种角色corporate需要的最多，因为在corporate里，SA不但要和dev team打交道还要跟business打交道，和 ...
洋人管吹牛逼叫做story telling ， my manager always tell me that if you can not tell a good story to help them to make a decision , they(the business) will hire an expensive consultant to sell them a better story.
作者: ybbest 时间: 2016-8-23 15:05:39
ctai010 发表于 2016-8-19 22:32
thank you.
Although there really isn't anything for share.
1. Difference between EA and SA isn't that clear. Some big corporate don't even have EA role. Agree, but a proper EA role is not IT role anymore. It is not about the job title it is really about where this role is in the Org chart.
2. You mentioned a key concept - Enterprise Agile. Does it means EA role will become obsolete in future? That's the million dollar question.
Not sure , I would hope in a large organisation they will still need EA . But who knows we might all get replaced by robots.
3. At any given time, if you go to Seek, SA job opening will out-number EA at 10-1 or more. Isn't SA have better job security? Although you can still apply SA job even if your last job is EA.
I thought there are no a lot of experienced EA around as well.
4. Do you really get paid more as EA? not necessarily. You get paid more by taking contracting role. Even dev contacting role can pay more than perm EA role.
But as EA , you can still climb the corporate ladder.
作者: MSSA 时间: 2016-8-23 17:44:29
ybbest 发表于 2016-8-23 09:11
洋人管吹牛逼叫做story telling ， my manager always tell me that if you can not tell a good story t ...
确实，我感觉SA和dev的不同就是SA的表达能力和说服能力和对business的理解，dev一般都比较重技术一些有时候会忽视很多business的东西。同时很多英语是第二语言的dev表达能力受限，空有一身本领说不出来干着急。
作者: liuruihua 时间: 2016-8-23 20:01:38
本帖最后由 liuruihua 于 2016-8-23 20:03 编辑
MSSA 发表于 2016-8-23 17:44
确实，我感觉SA和dev的不同就是SA的表达能力和说服能力和对business的理解，dev一般都比较重技术一些有时 ...
I don't know others.
Sometimes the boss do not understand the technical side and I have to explain to him to use the right way. :-)i.e. in the browser it is very hard to copy and past to the clipboard using javascript and to do it right, have to offer a small window to ask user to copy themselves. :-)
作者: ybbest 时间: 2016-8-23 20:19:54
MSSA 发表于 2016-8-23 17:44
确实，我感觉SA和dev的不同就是SA的表达能力和说服能力和对business的理解，dev一般都比较重技术一些有时 ...
对SA 有的时候是一种advisor的角色。很多non-functional requirement,很多时候business都在乎的，比如SSO，比如integration必须要用到middleware，就必须要和他们解释为什么要这样做，这样做的好处是什么。
作者: 玛思琪哆 时间: 2016-8-24 11:11:16
學習貼！多謝分享！
作者: since 时间: 2016-8-24 12:51:30
工作关系跟我对口的都是各大银行或者大vendor的solution arch, lead arch, principal arch。他们往往都是业务精通，ppt熟练，辩才无碍，出的方案完全不接地气，跟dev的合作完全不行。 这是新西兰这边的一大毛病， 只有大企业才用architect，而architect又完全不写代码。 我是脚着一切不写代码的architect都是耍流氓。 另外一点是solution architect 这个头衔包含的内容太广，越来越不和实际。现在越来越多的公司（硅谷开始）用专门的software architect，而且普遍比sa 的薪水要高。 当然engineering文化高的公司如google之类的是没有architect的。这一点也值得思索。
楼主上了新岗位，学了很多soft skills这是个人career成长的必经之路。但也不要忘了你自己安身立命之本还是技术能力，是解决实际问题。 千万别把实战的机会都丢给dev，这样几年以后反而吃亏。
作者: zwanything 时间: 2016-8-24 12:59:02
good great great best
作者: ybbest 时间: 2016-8-24 13:20:57
since 发表于 2016-8-24 12:51
工作关系跟我对口的都是各大银行或者大vendor的solution arch, lead arch, principal arch。他们往往都是业 ...
谢谢给的建议，受教了。
作者: Foody 时间: 2016-8-24 14:20:30
since 发表于 2016-8-24 12:51
工作关系跟我对口的都是各大银行或者大vendor的solution arch, lead arch, principal arch。他们往往都是业 ...
非常同意。dev 和 sa 只是职位功能不同，并无高低之分。新西兰有太多的sa, 只是in house domain expert。
作者: 愿景 时间: 2016-8-24 15:12:38
好贴拜读了
作者: zwanything 时间: 2016-8-24 16:06:59
作为第一代移民的挨踢人员。爬阶梯确实很累，特别是到中高层职位，刚开始语言是问题，慢慢到后来，是文化差异的问题了。老外讲一堆笑话，只能理解字面意思，这其实就是文化背景的问题了。
所以我严重同意楼上的，技术是立身之本，不丢弃技术远远比精通文化更容易。
作者: ybbest 时间: 2016-8-24 17:53:06
本帖最后由 ybbest 于 2016-8-24 19:37 编辑
zwanything 发表于 2016-8-24 16:06
作为第一代移民的挨踢人员。爬阶梯确实很累，特别是到中高层职位，刚开始语言是问题，慢慢到后来，是文化差 ...
SA 还是一个技术职位，我所说的communication skills 只是我觉得从我自身角度从dev 转到SA 所欠缺的，作为SA当然要有过硬的技术，要不然你的technical design 怎么做啊。我只是分享一下从dev 转到SA 过程中的一些学习经验吧，如果有朋友想往这方面发展有个可以借鉴的东西。
可以参考一下
What makes a damn good solution architect?
What the heck does a solution architect do anyway?
作者: yche276 时间: 2016-8-24 20:35:31
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作者: yche276 时间: 2016-8-24 20:39:32
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作者: ctai010 时间: 2016-8-24 22:01:23
yche276 发表于 2016-8-24 20:39
Steve Lang! hahahaha! I couldn't agree more!!!!!!!!!! Good luck to your projects! ;-P
哈哈
無奈呀...
Security 這種東西要挑毛病一定有的...
作者: ctai010 时间: 2016-8-24 22:04:40
ybbest 发表于 2016-8-23 15:05
1. Difference between EA and SA isn't that clear. Some big corporate don't even have EA role. Agre ...
All absolutely true, and I still have so much to learn.
If we have the same conversation 1 year later I'm sure some of my thoughts will change.
作者: Baby_Vicky 时间: 2016-8-25 08:18:38
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作者: ybbest 时间: 2016-8-25 15:57:29
Baby_Vicky 发表于 2016-8-25 08:18
Good on you!
Ps microservice + devops ftw lol
Is your company working on microservice? I went to a conference recently , the speaker asks the question in front the SA/EAs, only Paymark actually deployed microservices in Production.
作者: ybbest 时间: 2016-8-25 16:02:14
本帖最后由 ybbest 于 2016-8-25 16:03 编辑
Foody 发表于 2016-8-24 14:20
非常同意。dev 和 sa 只是职位功能不同，并无高低之分。新西兰有太多的sa, 只是in house domain expert。 ...
这点同意，而且工资也不比senior dev 高很多。不过如果想在公司往上爬的话，就必须要学会和人打交道。SA又可以继续搞技术，做developer做的无聊的话，SA是一个出路。不过不一定适合每个人，我现在觉得还是做developer的时候开心。现在要不断的看人脸色，不断的看别人的design，或者自己写design。
作者: Foody 时间: 2016-8-25 17:04:38
ybbest 发表于 2016-8-25 16:02
这点同意，而且工资也不比senior dev 高很多。不过如果想在公司往上爬的话，就必须要学会和人打交道。SA又 ...
Dev 做烦了的确可以做sa, 但做Tech lead有成就感，气势和自信. 特别是在vender里面，技术强 经验丰富很受用，毕竟project要靠你从头带到尾。
作者: Baby_Vicky 时间: 2016-8-25 17:43:04
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作者: zhlei616 时间: 2016-8-25 21:38:34
终于找到组织了
微信链接过期了，谁可以再发个新的吗？
作者: gluckdavid 时间: 2016-8-26 15:12:52
前辈的文章，值得学习 分享
作者: ybbest 时间: 2016-8-27 10:49:15
Foody 发表于 2016-8-25 17:04
Dev 做烦了的确可以做sa, 但做Tech lead有成就感，气势和自信. 特别是在vender里面，技术强 经验丰富很受 ...
同意，不过在vendor里做太累了，我一个经理和我说过你要想不学习的那么辛苦，就要寻找在IT里更新不那么快的技能和职位，这样才能给你时间学习这种技能去变成专家，这种技能也更值钱。
作者: Foody 时间: 2016-8-27 20:32:01
ybbest 发表于 2016-8-27 10:49
同意，不过在vendor里做太累了，我一个经理和我说过你要想不学习的那么辛苦，就要寻找在IT里更新不那么快 ...
我感觉做sa应该是50岁以后的plan, top dev的下一步应该是start up, 现在有azure 和 aws 这2大平台， 自己出产品的门槛低了很多。
作者: ybbest 时间: 2016-8-28 16:42:52
ctai010 发表于 2016-8-24 22:04
All absolutely true, and I still have so much to learn.
If we have the same conversation 1 year ...
YES，changes and disruption is the new norm. Be able to adatp to the change is the key.
作者: ybbest 时间: 2016-9-4 19:34:39
Foody 发表于 2016-8-27 20:32
我感觉做sa应该是50岁以后的plan, top dev的下一步应该是start up, 现在有azure 和 aws 这2大平台， 自己 ...
看来我的心态已经50岁了。我很佩服创业的人，但是我觉得不是所有的人都有这样的激情，或者机遇。如果不创业了，有想往上爬的话，可以考虑考虑SA.
作者: liuruihua 时间: 2016-9-4 20:10:30
ybbest 发表于 2016-9-4 19:34
看来我的心态已经50岁了。我很佩服创业的人，但是我觉得不是所有的人都有这样的激情，或者机遇。如果不创 ...
Not to you, but in general I experienced that sa is in the first fire line than senior developer if the senior developer hold valuable skills. Maybe my work experience is not long enough to experience the opposite. I heard that some worker job title as cfo to get leaving due to cutting cost and ceo quit job to save other's job.
作者: NewLynnHse 时间: 2016-9-4 22:33:43
ybbest 发表于 2016-9-4 19:34
看来我的心态已经50岁了。我很佩服创业的人，但是我觉得不是所有的人都有这样的激情，或者机遇。如果不创 ...
不想创业又不想往上爬的怎么办？能干dev干到退休吗？我做过SA，真的觉得很boring也，最后又做回了dev才觉得活着有点意思。。。哈哈
作者: ybbest 时间: 2016-9-4 23:03:31
本帖最后由 ybbest 于 2016-9-5 09:19 编辑
NewLynnHse 发表于 2016-9-4 22:33
不想创业又不想往上爬的怎么办？能干dev干到退休吗？我做过SA，真的觉得很boring也，最后又做回了dev才觉 ...
这个可能是个人追求和喜好的问题了，当然可以一直做dev。做dev挺好的，我也很怀念做dev的时候。不过现在做SA，有很多东西要学，technology还有其它的，更有挑战吧。
能不能干到退休谁也不知道啊，工作可能被外包或者机器人就做了，程序员也不例外。还有可能公司transformation以后工作就没了。可以看看这个视频
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpEFjWbXog0[/youtube]
作者: liuruihua 时间: 2016-9-5 07:41:53
NewLynnHse 发表于 2016-9-4 22:33
不想创业又不想往上爬的怎么办？能干dev干到退休吗？我做过SA，真的觉得很boring也，最后又做回了dev才觉 ...
What are you doing in dev now?
作者: shixiawg 时间: 2016-9-5 09:03:27
ybbest 发表于 2016-9-4 23:03
这个可能是个人追求和喜好的问题了，当然可以一直做dev。做dev挺好的，我也很怀念做dev的时候。不过现在做 ...
我喜欢这个视频。虽然好像已经证明了有些事并没有都发生。有个到2028年什么什么已经14年了，那就得从2014年开始，哪件事忘了但是好像是并没有开始
作者: Eastpark 时间: 2016-9-5 21:42:08
Single Sign On 问题可以找我哦。我是专家
作者: ybbest 时间: 2016-9-6 07:27:16
Eastpark 发表于 2016-9-5 21:42
Single Sign On 问题可以找我哦。我是专家
专家有微信吧，私信我吧
作者: ybbest 时间: 2016-9-8 13:16:41
zwanything 发表于 2016-8-24 16:06
作为第一代移民的挨踢人员。爬阶梯确实很累，特别是到中高层职位，刚开始语言是问题，慢慢到后来，是文化差 ...
[attach]1467304[/attach]
作者: ybbest 时间: 2016-9-9 21:16:58
liuruihua 发表于 2016-8-23 20:01
I don't know others.
Sometimes the boss do not understand the technical side and I have to explain ...
You can read some of the job descriptions for Enterprise Architect to get an understanding of the role.
https://careers.aucklandtransport.govt.nz/jobdetails?ajid=i6509
https://careers.mbie.govt.nz/job ... 52&in_site=Seek
作者: liuruihua 时间: 2016-9-10 11:22:58
ybbest 发表于 2016-9-9 21:16
You can read some of the job descriptions for Enterprise Architect to get an understanding of the ...
Thanks
Not interested
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