新西兰天维网社区

标题: IT Archtiect - different types [打印本页]

作者: ctai010 时间: 2015-4-8 23:34:26 标题: IT Archtiect - different types

This is initiated from another discussion from another topic, but the original LZ ask the thread to be deleted.
So I pickup from last discussion and continue here.

I can't speak for Infrastructure Architect or Network Architect.
But here's my understanding to various other architect roles:

1. Domain Architect (may also known as Solution Architect)
This is usually a in-house role within a big enterprise, and this role will look after a particular functional area. It can be categorised in technical area, i.e. CRM, Integration, Online, Billing, Payment, BI/DW etc... But in reality you still nee have knowledge in other IT domains, it's very rare a IT solution don't cross multi-domains. Sometimes Domain refer to business area, i.e. Banking, Utility, Telco, Insurance.
The daily work involved with this kind of role is extermely diversed, engage with business stakeholder, write design document, lead solution process, lead SDLC, lead problem diagnosis / triage, business case analysis / calcucation, business impact analysis, project scoping / cost estimation, vender selection, working with vendor, and may need get your hand dirty and get involved in development / test / operation tasks too.
Above all else, this role need to work with extermely ambigious and abstract business concepts and somehow turn it into a tangible deliverable software solution.
But you often don't need to resolve real technical issue, typically you just find out what the problem is, then hand over to vendor / dev / BAU team to resolve. However sometimes identify the root cause of problem is the hardest part.

2. Technical Architect / Consulting Architect (may also known as Solution Architect too)
This is usually a customer-facing role specialising at a software product. This person is a subject matter expert with a particular product. This role is far more technically orientated compare to domain architect. You are engaged to complete a specific task. The role is technically more challanging, but the nature of work is less ambigious.

3. Generic Solution Architect
This is usually from a Software Vendor that dont own any software product themselve. i.e. Datacom, Intergen, Provoke, Optimation etc... This is like half way between above 2 categories. You need deal with ambigious business ideas but you also need to work on hard-core technical problems. Good thing is you may get to learn new product and new technology on every new engagement. Bad thing is you don't normally get to choose what project you work on.

4. Enterprise Architect
This is like Domain Architect but one level up. There is actually a lot overlapping areas between EA and Domain Architect / Soluation Architect. But EA will spend more time on defining roadmap, deciding which project is to be delivered with which platform, decide which application to decommision etc... And EA will spend less time on actually deliver the project. There is a joke I heard that say EA normally don't even care if a proposed solution actually work or not, it's not their problem. There is certain degree of truth to that joke.

作者: NewLynnHse 时间: 2015-4-8 23:40:56

I hate architecting, I prefer hands on programming

作者: ctai010 时间: 2015-4-9 00:03:46

NewLynnHse 发表于 2015-4-8 23:40
I hate architecting, I prefer hands on programming

That's a fair point, some people prefer programming, nothing wrong with that. I have a friend promoted from developer to architect in one of largest enterprise in Nz, after 3 month he quit the architect role and go back to development, he just hate dealing with ambitious and abstract problems

作者: anzac_corp 时间: 2015-4-9 00:22:11

NewLynnHse 发表于 2015-4-8 23:40
I hate architecting, I prefer hands on programming

An architect has to be extremely good at programming and/or infrastructure engineering. Nowadays, with the increasing popularity of Agile methodology, you don't have to start big, you build small functionalities and extend / expand. So the role of 'Architect' becomes blurry, it usually refers to a senior developer or engineer who has enough project / product experience to kickstart a new one from scratch.

作者: since 时间: 2015-4-9 00:24:16

在美帝等国家，越来越多的title是software architect. 而且收入比做infra的要高。各人认为这样比较科学

作者: ctai010 时间: 2015-4-9 01:00:55

anzac_corp 发表于 2015-4-9 00:22
An architect has to be extremely good at programming and/or infrastructure engineering. Nowadays, ...

The agile methodology trend does bring a new challenge to traditional architecture design approach. But most of other duties of domain architect / EA still remain the same. Developer often don't realise how much work / effort is spend before a single line of code is written.
1. Business came up with a ambiguous objective,  translate that to software solution is a lengthy process by itself.
2. Decide which platform / product to use to deliver this solution is another headache,  and often technical justification need give way to political motivation. This is another area that you'll still need architect.
3. Cost estimation, business case,  return of investment,  total cost of ownership all need be prepared and presented to project sponsor,  and this process usually go back and forth multiple times before the funding is secured.
4. Work out the endless dependencis between your project with in-flight projects,  future projects,  BAU enhancements and determine when and how your project will deliver to production is another major challenge.

The list goes on, so a big enterprise still need a army of architects no matter how 'agile'  they  get,  and all of the above tasks do not need programming skills. So depend on the company and role, some architect's job isn't changed much with  agile trend

作者: angelvan2012 时间: 2015-4-9 11:22:48

越抽象，越杀脑细胞。

作者: angelvan2012 时间: 2015-4-9 11:39:46

What's the price of a consultant or an architect for enterprise?

作者: ctai010 时间: 2015-4-9 11:47:59

angelvan2012 发表于 2015-4-9 11:39
What's the price of a consultant or an architect for enterprise?

the term 'consultant' is too generic, I can't comment on average rate.

Architect rate, for free lance contractor, it's about $80-150 per hour.
For business-to-business arrangement, it's about $120-$250 per hour.

Developer, free lance contractor, it's about $80-120 per hour.
For business-to-business arrangement, it's about $100-$200 per hour.

For contractor rate, developer is not that much different to architect.

作者: ybbest 时间: 2015-4-9 11:51:08

本帖最后由 ybbest 于 2015-4-9 10:52 编辑

ctai010 发表于 2015-4-9 10:47
the term 'consultant' is too generic, I can't comment on average rate.

Architect rate, for free ...

LZ 现在的工作是Architect吗？

作者: angelvan2012 时间: 2015-4-9 11:53:10

ctai010 发表于 2015-4-9 10:47
the term 'consultant' is too generic, I can't comment on average rate.

Architect rate, for free ...

good, good, a problem for me is how to prove I'm competent for these jobs, as I am new here comparing with you guys.

作者: ctai010 时间: 2015-4-9 11:54:06

ybbest 发表于 2015-4-9 10:51
LZ 现在的工作是Architect吗？

yes.

Started as developer / programmer / consultant.
then moved to tech lead / team lead,
then moved to architect.

作者: ybbest 时间: 2015-4-9 11:54:43

本帖最后由 ybbest 于 2015-4-9 11:00 编辑

angelvan2012 发表于 2015-4-9 10:39
What's the price of a consultant or an architect for enterprise?

It depends you can look at the salary survey and the perm and contractor rate conversion
http://nz.hudson.com/portals/nz/documents/salary%20guides/2015/SalaryTables2015-NZ-ICT-preview.pdf
http://www.crackerjacks.co.nz/ne ... te-should-i-charge/

作者: ctai010 时间: 2015-4-9 11:57:41

angelvan2012 发表于 2015-4-9 10:53
good, good, a problem for me is how to prove I'm competent for these jobs, as I am new here compar ...

all you need is be at right time at right place... don't need to be particularly good to get a contractor role.

作者: ybbest 时间: 2015-4-10 12:20:46

ctai010 发表于 2015-4-9 10:54
yes.

Started as developer / programmer / consultant.

are you more of enterprise architect or solution architect.most architect who was senior devbefore have most coming from Integration background? The area I am interested in are Enterprise content managment,but it does not have clear career path. Any thought?

作者: ctai010 时间: 2015-4-10 13:57:09

ybbest 发表于 2015-4-10 11:20
are you more of enterprise architect or solution architect.most architect who was senior devbefore ...

i'm on domain architect side. But our company don't have the position "enterprise architect", so all the normal responsibilities of EA is taken care by domain architects.

Not all architect need come from integration background. Although to be a good architect, you really need to know a bit of everything for every domain. Online, Mobile, integration, BI/DW, billing, etc... But everyone will have their strong side and weak side. It's okay if you are stronger at xxx and weaker at yyyy.

ECM is a rather specalised field and relatively more isolated on it's own. If you want pursue the path of pure ECM, I'll recommand leaning multiple products and platforms. But if it's me, I won't bet my entire career on just ECM domain knowledge.

作者: ybbest 时间: 2015-4-10 15:02:19

ctai010 发表于 2015-4-10 12:57
i'm on domain architect side. But our company don't have the position "enterprise architect", so a ...

Sounds like I am pursing something that does not have a bright future. I will definitely consider that and hopefully it will find my way up.
Do you have any recommended book or training to help the transition from Senior dev to Solution architect. From SA to EA?

作者: tli004 时间: 2015-4-10 15:17:00

提示: 作者被禁止或删除内容自动屏蔽

作者: ctai010 时间: 2015-4-10 15:42:22

tli004 发表于 2015-4-10 14:17
貌似楼主角度偏技术流。其实一门专的人未必职业上升空间会受限制，这完全取决于个人是否在合适的环境里发展 ...

yeah that's a good point.
It's possible to transition from 1 domain to another.
And actually the ideal archtiect should be expert at every domain.

But there is a very realistic problem with change domain / specaliaty - sometimes you'll need accept a pay cut.
Say for example you are a Sharepoint expert with 10 years expereince. And if you want transition to, for example, iOS development. It's hard to get employed as senior / architect level iOS from day 1, so a salary reduction is likley.
However if you transition from Sharepoint to another ECM related production, i.e. Adobe Experience Manager / Sitecore, maybe you can still get a senior / architect level job directly and you won't need take a pay cut.

So yeah, I agree with your point.

作者: ctai010 时间: 2015-4-10 15:57:26

ybbest 发表于 2015-4-10 14:02
Sounds like I am pursing something that does not have a bright future. I will definitely consider ...

oh, don't get me wrong.

There is nothing bad with learning ECM and became a expert with it. Its a essential function for all big enterprise and I don't see this capability going away in near future.

Just that I think it's much beneficial overall to expend your skill and experience beyond 1 domain.
For me, I have a 2-year theory. If you work with the same product / platform for more then 2 years, it's time to move on. You are just doing same thing over and over, not learning anything new.

But in the mean time you don't want be 'jack of all trade, master of none'. So it's still important to have a set of key skills that can be your 'bread and butter'.

So if you already have strong skill in ECM, that's good, don't give up on that, keep learning and be a master a that area, but in the mean time learn other related skills. i.e. integration, online, digital platforms, or back end such as CRM, ERP, integration. Sound a lot to learn, but that's what you signed up for what you step into IT :)

About how to step up into architect, read books will help, but very little chance. There is no strightforward answer. I'll think about it for a few days and post another topic about it.

作者: tli004 时间: 2015-4-10 15:59:28

提示: 作者被禁止或删除内容自动屏蔽

作者: ctai010 时间: 2015-4-10 16:04:11

tli004 发表于 2015-4-10 14:59
确实，很多时候沿career ladder的上行，未必伴随compensation的上调。
算是成长的烦恼吧 ...

my opinion is a paycut is worthwhile if it means better career prospect.

Especially if we just talk about 10-20k. I can live with 10-20k less if it means better future.
if it's 20-40k, I'll still give it careful thought.

But I know there's people that even a 1k paycut is no-deal.
Entirely dependent on personal decision.

作者: ybbest 时间: 2015-4-10 18:19:33

tli004 发表于 2015-4-10 14:17
貌似楼主角度偏技术流。其实一门专的人未必职业上升空间会受限制，这完全取决于个人是否在合适的环境里发展 ...

对啊，我们直接从datacom要了一个SharePoint team3个dev2个tester和一个ba，这样我们现在的team才可以去做新的东西。像salesforce,sitecore,opentext和thumderhead.

作者: ybbest 时间: 2015-4-10 18:25:56

tli004 发表于 2015-4-10 14:59
确实，很多时候沿career ladder的上行，未必伴随compensation的上调。
算是成长的烦恼吧 ...

如果在一个公司是应该不会pay cut吧，公司至多不涨工资，但是会花很多钱让你学新的技术，毕竟一个大的系统，像ecm或者wcm做完要维护总不能都outsource，还要有内部的SME。

作者: tli004 时间: 2015-4-11 00:12:56

提示: 作者被禁止或删除内容自动屏蔽

作者: tli004 时间: 2015-4-11 00:21:36

提示: 作者被禁止或删除内容自动屏蔽

作者: xp_theman 时间: 2015-4-11 18:04:02

为了几k吵架就没意思了。刨去税到手的没多少。

作者: ybbest 时间: 2015-4-13 15:49:10

NewLynnHse 发表于 2015-4-8 22:40
I hate architecting, I prefer hands on programming

Well , if you ever worked as Architect and does not like it I can understand your choice.If you never worked as architect and just heard from other people story or experience then I think you should at least start looking at how to become one see if you like it.

作者: ybbest 时间: 2015-4-13 15:51:51

ctai010 发表于 2015-4-10 12:57
i'm on domain architect side. But our company don't have the position "enterprise architect", so a ...

When you say I need to know a bit of everything for every domain. To what extend I need to understand them , I can't work as Mobile /integration and BI/DW developer each for a number of years. Can you give us an example of how far we need to understand?

作者: ybbest 时间: 2015-4-13 20:36:15

xp_theman 发表于 2015-4-11 17:04
为了几k吵架就没意思了。刨去税到手的没多少。

要是一个公司，只给你一个人降工资，肯定不爽。

作者: ctai010 时间: 2015-4-14 22:32:13

本帖最后由 ctai010 于 2015-4-14 21:36 编辑

Hi. Sorry for slow response.

Firstly IT architect is a very generic title, in some cases architect is no different to senior developer. And there is some very specialised architect roles out there where you are only expected to work on a very specific area / project.

So architect don't 'need' to know a bit for every domain. But the more you know the better, software solution is rarely isolated in one domain (at least in enterprise context).

Generally speaking, because you are the architect, people will expect you to know everything and have a solution for every problem. Sometimes you’ll get put under spotlight and expected to solve the problem instantly. Have multi-domain knowledge maximise your chance to do well. If you are able to consistently resolve problems quickly and effectively, you’ll quickly earn respect in the organisation and build a reputation among your peers. So to answer your question, how far you need to understand? You need to understand to a extend where:
1. Able to design the solution where you can justify that it will work (regardless it's single domain or cross domain) and able to convince business to spend big money on your solution. You may get challenged from all angles, technical, financial, future-proof, architectural elegance, and general good software engineering principles and design patterns.
2. When something went wrong, you can jump into the shit hole, find the root cause of the problem and come up with a idea to fix it. In a ideal world Architect just give instructions and let the dev/op team to fix it. But we don't' live in a ideal world, sometimes architect need get hand dirty and fix it yourself. So both development and OS / Unix skills is extremely handy.

Now, even if your role is, for example, WCM Architect. But when you work closely with Project Manager / Business owner / Senior manager, they don't know (or care) about any technical details. If there's a problem, they'll expect you to fix it, end of story. And for instance if you are able to trace the problem to integration layer, in a perfect world you should able to just hand over this problem to integration team and they should be responsible to fix it. But again, we don't live in perfect world.

Sometimes the downstream team can be extremely unhelpful for all sort of reason. If you also know a lot about integration, you'll able to spell out to them exactly what went wrong, where is it happening, proof that this is their fault, and how to fix it. This way you'll make your PM happy, and earn respect in the organization.

Having said that, the soft skills of how you handle the problems is actually more important. If you have the ability to handle tough situation with ‘silky smooth’ response, you’ll also do well as architect. An essential skill for top architect is able to make everybody feel the problem is solved, but actually we are still in square one - nothing is resolved. And the sad truth is talker actually progress further than doer. So there will be people just talk their way to a very high level role without any real skill / knowledge. That's just life.

作者: 117wik 时间: 2015-4-15 09:13:32

ctai010 发表于 2015-4-14 21:32
Hi. Sorry for slow response.

Firstly IT architect is a very generic title, in some cases architect ...

Hi,

How long have you been in the industry, how did you get to where you are today (sorry if someone has asked the same Q already).

I am someone that work on the other side of the fence (i.e. not a developer, started as support and move up to senior, tech lead, ops manager etc, in system & infrastructure ==> network & firewall ==> security). I have done a lot of design and architecture work on the network security side of thing, my title was never really an architect (they wanted me to go to architecture team multiple times and i refuse), however i pretty much architect, design and build up all the security capabilities current company is using. Currently working as a manager with 15 direct reports. 15 years IT experience if anyone ever wonder.

We can almost start a AMA (ask me anything) thread for people wanting to know how to get into IT, how to career progress etc? :P

If you work in town, and keen for a coffee sometime, drop me an IM (always good to get to know fellow chinese working in different part industries).

作者: ybbest 时间: 2015-4-15 21:31:35

ctai010 发表于 2015-4-14 21:32
Hi. Sorry for slow response.

Firstly IT architect is a very generic title, in some cases architect ...

Thanks for the reply , it definitely helps me to look what I need to work on for the next 3 to 5 years.

作者: tli004 时间: 2015-4-16 08:48:34

提示: 作者被禁止或删除内容自动屏蔽

作者: Eastpark 时间: 2015-4-16 17:05:31

117wik 发表于 2015-4-15 08:13
Hi,

How long have you been in the industry, how did you get to where you are today (sorry if some ...

I remember you. Seem you are also a living fossil in IT industry just like me.

How do you value CISSP in your work?

作者: 117wik 时间: 2015-4-16 17:56:12

Eastpark 发表于 2015-4-16 16:05
I remember you. Seem you are also a living fossil in IT industry just like me.

How do you value ...

It really depends on which field of security are you in. If you are in Ops, becoming CISSP certified doesn't make you a better engineer or analyst. I still encourage most people to do it as that's almost the only certification recognized by recruitment agents.

Who are you again? (i don't recognize your online forum handle). Do you work in security too?

作者: xp_theman 时间: 2015-4-16 18:01:07

AMA Question 1:

which skill is most important, if your goal is to earn more.

作者: Eastpark 时间: 2015-4-16 18:28:54

117wik 发表于 2015-4-16 16:56
It really depends on which field of security are you in. If you are in Ops, becoming CISSP certifi ...

You were recruiting some guys on the forum and said you are from Security background. That's why I remember you. I am kind of a security practitioner, people are calling me security consultant, though I don't think I am. :)

I work on application level only, including Single Sign On, Identity and Access Management etc.

作者: ctai010 时间: 2015-4-16 19:38:06

117wik 发表于 2015-4-15 08:13
Hi,

How long have you been in the industry, how did you get to where you are today (sorry if some ...

Hi there

Yeah I work in town but flying in-and-out a lot recently. Caught in middle of few crazy projects recently.
Def happy to catchup when I'm back to normal schedule.

I have 10 years exp. Start as developer, moved on to team lead / tech lead, and eventually luckly enough to move to architect role.

For me I set my goal to be a architect very early in my career. I changed my job ever 1-2 years for the sole purpose of build the right expereince to help me in the long term.

a AMA topic sound great, and everyone will be welcome to chip in.

作者: ctx2002 时间: 2015-5-5 11:56:27

这个题目好，有空能出来谈谈吗。

欢迎光临新西兰天维网社区 (http://bbs.skykiwi.com/)