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标题: Watch out Westpac's bullying techneques， updated, see #49 [打印本页]
作者: darkness1986    时间: 2014-2-26 10:00:06     标题: Watch out Westpac's bullying techneques， updated, see #49

本帖最后由 darkness1986 于 2014-12-13 00:11 编辑

i refinced to westpac in 2013. as we all know westpac has this deed agreement regarding refinance (ie, if you refinance to another bank within two year, you need to return the cash back given).

i have sold one of my housees recently and purchased another one. i have decided to put my new property together with the one left to BNZ instead of westpac because westpac charges more bank fees in all areas and hard to deal with.

i have been discuessing the cash back issue with my account manager at westpac on the basis that the deed agreement i signed in 2013 was not a complete document(ie, no loan accounts details listed and the document was not signed by westpac staff, more importantly, 95% of the original mortgage for all properties was paid off due to sales of property rather than refinance). also i have informed them that " returning cash back" and " loan settlement" are two seperate issue and i intended to sort these out seperately so that one does not interfere with another.

Surprisingly, i received a phone call from westpac threating me that i have to return the cash back before the date my new property settle, otherwise they will not discharge my other property at westpac. at this point in time, the settlement of my new property is only 2 days away.

To all of you that is planning to get a mortgage with westpac, is it really worth the time and effort to take on foreseeable throubles and bullying techneques from westpac even though they provide attractive cash back?
作者: NewLynnHse    时间: 2014-2-26 10:03:18

OMG...投诉去，怎么可以这样？
作者: NewLynnHse    时间: 2014-2-26 10:03:47

https://www.bankomb.org.nz/complaints/new
作者: bungyjumping999    时间: 2014-2-26 10:05:22

本帖最后由 bungyjumping999 于 2014-2-26 10:06 编辑

if you don't settle personally, the redemption statement will include your cash back amount together with your mortgage amount to the lawyer who handle your sales, they are obligated to settle the same amount the bank quoted.

The letter you signed is a declaration ( I think) that if you didn't take the loan for 2 yrs, you will have to refund the cash back.( if you take tv, return your tv ??? )
作者: darkness1986    时间: 2014-2-26 10:06:38

NewLynnHse 发表于 2014-2-26 11:03
https://www.bankomb.org.nz/complaints/new

{:8_481:} woo how did you reply so quick.

thank you for the link, i have contacted bank omb this morning. they told me to complain with westpac first due to the timing issue. will see how it goes.
作者: darkness1986    时间: 2014-2-26 10:09:06

bungyjumping999 发表于 2014-2-26 11:05
if you don't settle personally, the redemption statement will include your cash back amount together ...

the deed argreement i siged clearly stated the if i refinance within 2 years i need to return the cash back.

in my case that is not a refinance but simple a sales of property
作者: NewLynnHse    时间: 2014-2-26 10:10:22

darkness1986 发表于 2014-2-26 11:06
woo how did you reply so quick.

thank you for the link, i have contacted bank omb th ...

那，可不可以先还了，再投诉要回来？
作者: darkness1986    时间: 2014-2-26 10:13:30

NewLynnHse 发表于 2014-2-26 11:10
那，可不可以先还了，再投诉要回来？

i think so. i will bring it to westpac complaince team first and see if we can get this sorted before settlement. otherwise i have to return the funds first. i will purse the matter through Banking Ombudsman for solution.
作者: NewLynnHse    时间: 2014-2-26 10:14:43

darkness1986 发表于 2014-2-26 11:13
i think so. i will bring it to westpac complaince team first and see if we can get this sorted bef ...

嗯，有时间的话，一定要告，太黑了
作者: ch51019    时间: 2014-2-26 10:19:23

Glad I didn't choose Westpac because I've heard about their 2yr contract
作者: bungyjumping999    时间: 2014-2-26 10:31:53

see if you can win ( your cash back)  and let us know   :)
作者: darkness1986    时间: 2014-2-26 10:38:29

bungyjumping999 发表于 2014-2-26 11:31
see if you can win ( your cash back)  and let us know   :)

i will keep you updated.
作者: yellowfishs    时间: 2014-2-26 12:23:45

我也是03年转WESTPAC，刚上年年底转了去BNZ。没有要回我的CASHBACK阿
作者: xp_theman    时间: 2014-2-26 12:29:42

I think it will be hard for you to get any loan from westpac next time.
作者: darkness1986    时间: 2014-2-26 13:16:41

本帖最后由 darkness1986 于 2014-2-26 15:15 编辑
xp_theman 发表于 2014-2-26 13:29
I think it will be hard for you to get any loan from westpac next time.


i wont consider doing business with westpac anymore. i dont think it worth the time and effort.
even with my new house, westpac offered more cashback then bnz, i still decided to go to bnz just for the sake of more simplified communication and less bank fees. it doesnt matter if i have to pay back the cash back or not. im posting this so that other people who is going to do business with westpac can see the bad side in real time.
作者: darkness1986    时间: 2014-2-26 13:19:32

本帖最后由 darkness1986 于 2014-2-26 14:19 编辑
yellowfishs 发表于 2014-2-26 13:23
我也是03年转WESTPAC，刚上年年底转了去BNZ。没有要回我的CASHBACK阿


did you sign the deed agreement, and did you stay there for at least 2 years?
作者: bungyjumping999    时间: 2014-2-26 13:30:51

本帖最后由 bungyjumping999 于 2014-2-26 14:15 编辑

I got my loan from Westpac in 2013, didn't get to sign 2 years contract, I called them this morning, they said if I break it by changing bank, it is just $300 admin fee. no need to return cash back.   no point of changing bank now, as interest was low when lock-in with them.

There is no other charges on my monthly a/c & housing loan a/c, as I chose electronic transactions a/c.  I think if there is any charges on monthly a/c, LZ should talk to the bank as they can always change a/c type to suit individual needs.

by the way ANZ breaking fee is $100.

I am happy with both banks.
作者: 一曰方茗    时间: 2014-2-26 14:26:08

楼主方便把合约中关于违约的那部分贴出来吗?
作者: darkness1986    时间: 2014-2-26 14:29:16

本帖最后由 darkness1986 于 2014-2-26 15:39 编辑
一曰方茗 发表于 2014-2-26 15:26
楼主方便把合约中关于违约的那部分贴出来吗?


do you mean the dead acknowledgement?, i dont know how to post picture[attach]702253[/attach]
作者: 一曰方茗    时间: 2014-2-26 14:38:06

darkness1986 发表于 2014-2-26 14:29
do you mean the dead acknowledgement?

就是agreement中陈述具体什么行为属于违约的那部分
作者: zhengj3    时间: 2014-2-26 14:40:13

同意lz, 我也碰到过跟westpec不能沟通的问题，最差的服务的银行！
作者: kingscat    时间: 2014-2-26 14:47:31

如果是长期的投资，这种2年的contract 还ok啊，频繁的短期交易估计不适合了。
作者: yellowfishs    时间: 2014-2-26 15:05:20

darkness1986 发表于 2014-2-26 13:19
did you sign the deed agreement, and did you stay there for at least 2 years?

they did not required us to sign the deed agreement
作者: wildgirl    时间: 2014-2-26 15:37:17

I hate westpac too. They are useless and impossible to deal with
作者: 一曰方茗    时间: 2014-2-26 17:50:13

我可能理解的不对, 因为所有的网友都是支持你的, 而我个人却觉得银行要求你退还cashback并没有错. 我不是学法律的, 只是从common sense来分析这件事.

你贴出来的合约分辨率太低, 看不清楚. 但是照你说的你签的这份deed其中有个条件就是如果你在2年之内refinance到其他的financial institution, 你需要退还westpac cashback payment.

事实是你在2年之内把loan换到BNZ了, 违反了这个条件. Deed里有提及在什么情况下会被void吗? 比如你卖了房子, 或者因为westpac比其他银行费用高, 你就有权refinance到其他银行而不用退还cashback? 如果没有的话, 你应该按照deed的规定退回指定的款项.

当然还有个前提是这份deed是有效的, 你提出了几个疑问(比如westpac staff没有在上面签名等), 所以这点可能会有争议.
作者: NewLynnHse    时间: 2014-2-26 17:55:19

一曰方茗 发表于 2014-2-26 18:50
我可能理解的不对, 因为所有的网友都是支持你的, 而我个人却觉得银行要求你退还cashback并没有错. 我不是学 ...

房子卖了不算是refinance吧？
作者: Heat    时间: 2014-2-26 17:56:46

同問.......
作者: 一曰方茗    时间: 2014-2-26 18:03:50

本帖最后由 一曰方茗 于 2014-2-26 18:19 编辑
NewLynnHse 发表于 2014-2-26 17:55
房子卖了不算是refinance吧？

ta帖子里说还有一个房子

"...put my new property together with the one left to BNZ instead of westpac..."

"...95% of the original mortgage for all properties was paid off due to sales of property..." 如果只有一个房子的话, 照现在的市场卖了应该能把所有的mortgage都还了, 否则银行也不会允许你卖的

还有一点不确定的是, 从楼主贴出来的deed我勉强能认出这份deed有refer to the schedule of loan facility:  Choices Loan Agreement, 不清楚那份loan agreement是和哪个/哪几个房子有关联.
作者: darkness1986    时间: 2014-2-26 18:25:59

本帖最后由 darkness1986 于 2014-2-26 19:32 编辑
一曰方茗 发表于 2014-2-26 18:50
我可能理解的不对, 因为所有的网友都是支持你的, 而我个人却觉得银行要求你退还cashback并没有错. 我不是学 ...


我同意你部分观点 正常情况下 如果2年内refince的却应该退还cash back.

我的情况特殊 第一我是卖房不是refinance. 原本是两个房子绑在一起的都在westpac 最近卖了一个还了大部分贷款剩下还有2万我就打算还清算了 因为settlement的时候已经break fixed loan 了 这样的话我并没有refinance还是卖了房子 并还清零头。 deed里面谢名了只有refinance去其他银行才算违反deed.

第二 deed本身不完整 当是准备文件那位没有写明loan facility detail (ie account number)我签了字扫描给他以后 他修改了loan detail吧account detail写上然后签字 也就是说他修改文件以后并没有通知我也没有让我在修改的地方签字 这样 最是不符合合约精神的 这份deed的有效性就的质疑了

现在因为我又买了新房子过两天要交接了 所以还清2万和 旧房discharge 新房settle 所有事情就凑在一起了 在我看来 我房子卖了钱还了 就不是refinance 至于之后我买新房用那个公司 都和deed本身一点关系也 没有。用westpac 快一年了 发现他们policy 很不合理 hard to deal with。 还有各种收费都不其它银行高很多 这次买房考虑在三 不管他cash back 在吸引人我还是打算找个好相处的银行 做起事情才不会碍手碍脚
作者: 一曰方茗    时间: 2014-2-26 18:39:57

本帖最后由 一曰方茗 于 2014-2-26 18:42 编辑
darkness1986 发表于 2014-2-26 18:25
我同意你部分观点 正常情况下 如果2年内refince的却应该退还cash back.

我的情况特殊 第一我是卖房不 ...

我也很同情你的处境, 只是把反面观点举出来这样你可以更全面地分析这件事, 有理有据地去争取你的权益.

从你贴出来的deed我勉强能认出这份deed有refer to the schedule of loan facility:  Choices Loan Agreement. 银行很坏, 一般会把你所有的房屋都绑定在一起as security. 如果那个没卖的房子也在这份loan agreement的话, 你用这个房子到其他银行refinance不就违反deed的条约了吗?

另外关于这个deed是不是完整, 是不是有效, 我前面也说了可能有争议.

我不是学法律的, 希望我的理解是错的.
作者: darkness1986    时间: 2014-2-26 18:44:32

一曰方茗 发表于 2014-2-26 19:03
ta帖子里说还有一个房子

"...put my new property together with the one left to BNZ instead of wes ...

我的贷款是分成2 份的 但是房子是绑在一起的 ，就因为他原始的deed里面是没有列出 loan detail 所以这份文件本身就有争议了 加上我签字之后银行的人多loan detail做了修改 完全没有通知我 在修改部分签字，我是今天问银行要文件才发现 他们做了改动
作者: darkness1986    时间: 2014-2-26 18:46:11

一曰方茗 发表于 2014-2-26 19:39
我也很同情你的处境, 只是把反面观点举出来这样你可以更全面地分析这件事, 有理有据地去争取你的权益.

...

谢谢，你的观点对分析很有帮助
作者: 一曰方茗    时间: 2014-2-26 18:50:04

darkness1986 发表于 2014-2-26 18:46
谢谢，你的观点对分析很有帮助

祝你挑战成功{:8_479:}
作者: 绿茶欣    时间: 2014-2-26 22:28:07

你是把一个房子卖了，然后把westpac所有贷款都还清了么？如果没有，按你说的还了95%，还有5%没有还就转银行，那就是re-finance.
作者: darkness1986    时间: 2014-2-26 23:07:32

本帖最后由 darkness1986 于 2014-2-27 00:11 编辑
绿茶欣 发表于 2014-2-26 23:28
你是把一个房子卖了，然后把westpac所有贷款都还清了么？如果没有，按你说的还了95%，还有5%没有还就转银行 ...


卖掉之后还省2万不到我和westpac 提了马上还清这样之后我买的房子和哪家贷款都和westpac没有关系，他们不但不回应还直接 威胁我 不还cash back 不discharge 房子
作者: HotSpring    时间: 2014-2-27 22:18:48

也是和westpac签了那个两年的条约， 我当时就觉得他没有把refinance定义的很清楚，所以还特意问了银行，refinance means change bank, doesn't not include I paid off mortage, 他们说是的。 我觉得你这个胜算很高。
作者: 宇宙飞船    时间: 2014-2-28 10:54:46

LZ, I have been working with Westpac for many years and I would like to explain something here.
Correct me if I am wrong, my understanding is you have two properties mortgaged with Westpac. Now one has been sold and you want to take the one left to BNZ.
Firstly, mortgage & home loan are two difference theory.
So in your case, the owing balance is not the issue, even you have paid 100% of the home loan, your properties are still mortgaged to the Bank.
Secondly, the question about the document you signed with the Bank. 'Refinance' means you give your property to the other Bank as a security. How much you owing is a different matter.

To sum up, if you simply sold your properties, there is a point to argue, but if you only sold one and 'refinance' the other property.
Then I would doubt about your complaint.
I would suggest you to repay the cashback in order to let the settlement goes through first.
作者: darkness1986    时间: 2014-2-28 11:27:10

本帖最后由 darkness1986 于 2014-2-28 12:46 编辑
宇宙飞船 发表于 2014-2-28 11:54
LZ, I have been working with Westpac for many years and I would like to explain something here.
Cor ...


thank you for your explanation.
there is something i dont understand.
Firstly, if i sold 1 property and paid off the remaining loan, what's the point of keeping the existing house as security to westpac?. i believe if the loan account balance is zero, i can request to discharge the property on the date the balance is paid off? Am i right? then whether i give the existing property to other bank for security or not, should not be a concern of Westpac.

Secondly, is it legal to alter details on a contract post the other party signing the document?

Last but not least, usually when you apply for a home loan with any bank, they will ask you to register the bank as first mortgagee.
therefore, based on the defination give by you, is it correct to assume that it is not necessary to put the bank as first mrotgagee when taking on a home loan?  that is to say that banks are fooling us to register them as first mortgage and hence make it hard for us to change bank?
作者: 宇宙飞船    时间: 2014-2-28 11:44:13

darkness1986 发表于 2014-2-28 12:27
thank you for your explanation.
there is something i dont understand. if i sold 1 property and pa ...

Well, normally that's not a concern to the Bank, but because of you have taken the conribution money, so that will be a problem now. Also given you or your solicitor has already told the Bank that you will take your other property to BNZ. So that's 'refinance'.
I can undrestand your frustration, but the Bank would appreciate your understanding as well. The purpose of contribution money is to retain customers, but because of some people were using this strategy to make money i.e. changin bank every 6-12 months, the Bank has no options other than asking customers to sign the agreement.

To your question, I am not sure what detail or information they changed. So I think to be fair, I couldn't say legal or illegal until I see the document.
作者: 宇宙飞船    时间: 2014-2-28 11:49:43

darkness1986 发表于 2014-2-28 12:27
thank you for your explanation.
there is something i dont understand.
Firstly, if i sold 1 pro ...

I need to correct you here. You must put the Bank as first registered mortgagee before you can have any home loans.
Otherwise, why the Bank lends you money without any securities.
作者: NewLynnHse    时间: 2014-2-28 11:57:50

越说越乱了。。。哈哈
作者: gwu    时间: 2014-2-28 12:02:39

觉的westpac 2 年这个挺合理的。但他们要给客人解释清楚
作者: darkness1986    时间: 2014-2-28 12:16:29

本帖最后由 darkness1986 于 2014-2-28 13:57 编辑
宇宙飞船 发表于 2014-2-28 12:44
Well, normally that's not a concern to the Bank, but because of you have taken the conribution mon ...


i understand where you comming from. however, i find it hard to agree with you.

firstly, it does not create an issue/ arguement until the date i give my existing property to BNZ as a security. in other words, it is not effectively a refinance until the settlement date. (ie the settlement date for my new house which is 28/02/14). whether the bank has been informed with my decision or not is irrelevant here. as long as the loan is paid off and property discharged before 28/02/14, it is not qualified as a refinance. i have apporached westpac regarding this option and in return i received a threat.

more importantly, if a bank is truely good at customer services and easy to deal with, i believe people is more likely to stay rather than switching banks. particularly in my case, it has caused me a lot of stress already try to solve the issue and let the settlement goes through. if westpac is as good as they advised, i would not go through all these troubles, just for the sake of an easier "life" in the future.

with westpact's attitude, i am more certain that i made a great decision to use BNZ for my new property.
作者: darkness1986    时间: 2014-2-28 12:20:03

宇宙飞船 发表于 2014-2-28 12:49
I need to correct you here. You must put the Bank as first registered mortgagee before you can hav ...

then the defination you given earlier doesnt make sense. im confused. in that case home loan is basiclly a mortgage.
作者: darkness1986    时间: 2014-2-28 12:25:32

gwu 发表于 2014-2-28 13:02
觉的westpac 2 年这个挺合理的。但他们要给客人解释清楚

agree, not all account manager explain these properly. in may case i was basiclly given this contract at last minute before settlement.
作者: 宇宙飞船    时间: 2014-2-28 13:26:11

Well, I am not trying to make the judgement here. I am just trying to help you with this issue.
Just to make it simple, the agreement you signed basically gives the Bank power to call back the contribution money if the mortgage is to be discharged within two years.  
If you really want to discuss, PM your number.
作者: darkness1986    时间: 2014-2-28 13:27:37

本帖最后由 darkness1986 于 2014-2-28 14:36 编辑
宇宙飞船 发表于 2014-2-28 14:26
Well, I am not trying to make the judgement here. I am just trying to help you with this issue.
Jus ...


THANKS IM SIMPLY DISCUESSING THE ISSUES WITH YOU, DONT TAKE IT PERSONALLY.

it needs to be pointed out that the document i signed clearly states " refinance" rather than "discharge" or any other words the bank prefer to use. i understand you might feel obligated to defend your own bank.

since the westpac staff has threated me, it has been brought to the attention of westpac's complaint team and it will go further to bank obus.. if needed. i just dont take threat very well.
作者: 宇宙飞船    时间: 2014-2-28 13:38:38

I don't really care about Westpac. :-)

Anyway, if you need any helps, PM me.
作者: darkness1986    时间: 2014-2-28 15:47:52

本帖最后由 darkness1986 于 2014-2-28 16:53 编辑

just an update, i made an complaint to westpac compaint department.
they have now waved the cash back repayment.
作者: 微苦蓝山    时间: 2014-2-28 15:55:58

如果你從其他銀行借錢，來提前還清你的貸款，爲什麽這不是refinance呢？
純探討
作者: darkness1986    时间: 2014-2-28 16:18:56

本帖最后由 darkness1986 于 2014-2-28 17:21 编辑
微苦蓝山 发表于 2014-2-28 16:55
如果你從其他銀行借錢，來提前還清你的貸款，爲什麽這不是refinance呢？
純探討


pure discussion.

when i say pay off the remaining loan, i mean use my own money to pay it off.

if you use money from other bank to pay it off there are two possiable senarios. the precondition is that the loan is paid off and property discharged before changing to another bank. otherwise it will be a refinance.
1. if the amount to pay off is substantial, hardly the other bank will release funds before security is transfered.
2. if the amount to pay off is not material, there is a good chance that the other bank will grant the funds before security is transfered. then you need to pay it off and discharge the property before settlement. usually asian will have some saving and can pay off small amount. so this senario is not usual.重点是不通过律师还钱
作者: 微苦蓝山    时间: 2014-2-28 16:30:51

darkness1986 发表于 2014-2-28 17:18
pure discussion.

when i say pay off the remaining loan, i mean use my own money to pay it off ...

嗯，重點是先接到錢，然後還錢終止貸款，還是要先轉貸款，才能借錢還清貸款
在法律上的確有差別
作者: wingzero    时间: 2014-3-4 18:31:00

请问如果没有签这份合同 break掉westpac的homeloan，
合同里写的是要赔偿手续费之类的。。。
一般需要多少钱？
是不是也要把cash back还回去呢？
作者: John.G    时间: 2014-3-4 21:01:29

wingzero 发表于 2014-3-4 19:31
请问如果没有签这份合同 break掉westpac的homeloan，
合同里写的是要赔偿手续费之类的。。。
一般需要多 ...

没签那2年的deed of agreement就不需要
Westpac的break fee比较高点 300刀+100刀 doc fee 如果break时的利率比签的利率要低则有罚款否则没有
作者: papa_ohyeah    时间: 2014-3-4 21:22:47

John.G 发表于 2014-3-4 22:01
没签那2年的deed of agreement就不需要
Westpac的break fee比较高点 300刀+100刀 doc fee 如果break时的 ...

请问这个是律师直接搞定的吗？
400刀怎么交？
他是根据什么要求把cash back 要回去？



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