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标题: ZT：Cross lease titles a ticking time bomb, warns lawyer [打印本页]

作者: NewLynnHse 时间: 2013-8-6 07:50:20 标题: ZT：Cross lease titles a ticking time bomb, warns lawyer

本帖最后由 NewLynnHse 于 2013-8-13 09:57 编辑

Deck battle turns into nightmare

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/property/news/article.cfm?c_id=8&objectid=10911582

A bitter Auckland cross-lease property dispute saw construction of a $2000 deck escalate into what an aggrieved party says has become a $45,000 nightmare.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/property/news/article.cfm?c_id=8&objectid=10908594

An Auckland lawyer is warning about dangers with 216,000 cross lease property titles and has called for people's horror stories about the issue.

Joanna Pidgeon, a partner at Pidgeon Law in Auckland, an Auckland District Law Society councillor and member of the society's property law committee, is calling for a law overhaul allowing owners of these titles to be able to convert them to far more desirable, cleaner fee simple titles.

Auckland has more than 100,000 cross lease titles, a form of shared ownership often applying to brick and tile ownership flats or houses, developed around the 1960s in many urban areas, she said.

Pidgeon said owners could face huge fees when they wanted to make changes to houses or units on such land, and adding another level, a deck or making major renovations could create big issues.

She wrote an article for LawNews, warning of the deficiencies of cross leases and said she knew of some dreadful situations.

Before any major building work took place on a cross lease title, owners must get their neighbours' permission.

Although they might know a few facts about the cross lease title when they bought the property, sometimes they forgot about the neighbour permission issue or simply did not know about the restrictions until it was too late, she said.

Sometimes, people had to pay $20,000 or more to a neighbour to get sign-off allowing building alterations to a unit or house - either before or after the building work had taken place - and the owners might also be put to the expense of having to deposit or lodge a new plan for the entire property, she said.

In some cases Pidgeon has handled, neighbours have withheld consent to building changes resulting in a bitter and drawn-out process of negotiation.

........................

作者: 注册了才发言 时间: 2013-8-6 08:15:10

版主好敬业，那么早就来造福大家了。我也来分享一下我的方法区分地是独立的还是非独立的。以下的我在阿海的全副地那篇里已发过了，看过的朋友请忽略。我自己定的区分规则是，把地址打到search地税的city council 网上，输入后能直接进入下页并告诉你土地面积多大的，一般就是全副地或是subdivided title（就是已经分割的但自己有独立决定权，如果要在自己地上加些什么的话。反之，输入地址后，出现一个list的地址，比如1\156 south road，2\156 south road，3\156 south road，那说明这块地是三家人crosslease的，选择其中的一个近入后，一般也不会告诉你地的面积大小，只显示'land area: not available'，下一行的'legal description' 中会显示类似这样的字样'flat1 lot xxx 1/3 SH 1606平米，我想是说三家共享crosslease1606平米吧。但地税和land value 还是会给的。按照这个方法，我有查到土地面积才285平米的，自己独立driveway 的全副地，不知道当时是怎么分出来的。我也用这个方法去查这个房子是不是legal home income 的房子，legal 的话，在地税下面有find out more, view full detail of the property，可看到coucil有收2份$350的uniform annual general charges and waste manage fees, 所以 legal home income的地税也会贵一点。

作者: rabit 时间: 2013-8-6 09:03:07

legal home income 请问这个是什么意思呢？

作者: NewLynnHse 时间: 2013-8-6 09:09:13

rabit 发表于 2013-8-6 09:03
legal home income 请问这个是什么意思呢？

应该是有跟康嫂报批，可以独立出租的部分。

作者: NewLynnHse 时间: 2013-8-6 09:17:17

注册了才发言发表于 2013-8-6 08:15
版主好敬业，那么早就来造福大家了。我也来分享一下我的方法区分地是独立的还是非独立的。以下的我在阿海的 ...

不错不错，我加一个leasehold的
[attach]522254[/attach]

[attach]522255[/attach]

作者: bernie 时间: 2013-8-6 09:27:50

cross lease主要就是改建要邻居同意，现在很多土地面积很小的全幅地房子也一样没有啥改建空间。
就看买房人的需求了，是自住还是为了投资。

作者: 注册了才发言 时间: 2013-8-6 09:32:19

很多时候中介会告诉你这个房子可以分开出租，自己住上面或住前面，下面或旁边的小屋出租。但很多情况是前任屋主只是把rumpas room改成了一房一厅，或车库改成独立的房，但没让康嫂审批过，大多华人卖家会这么做。按法律，这些是不能出租的，邻居知道后，如果嫌你家人进进出出多，是可以投诉你的，康嫂知道后是可以让你拆掉的。如果康嫂审批过的就是合法的home income，但要通过审批是要花一笔钱的，要求也是挺严的，随便放个炉子是不可以的，但我们华人很多都这样做，没经过审批。合法的，每年所交地税也会多点。所以中介的话不可信，查lim的话要花钱，我就用以上的方法看一下，至少可以知道合不合法。也请专家指教，不对的地方请改正。

作者: 注册了才发言 时间: 2013-8-6 09:34:18

NewLynnHse 发表于 2013-8-6 09:09
应该是有跟康嫂报批，可以独立出租的部分。

谢谢替我答了，我打字很慢，发了后，才看见你已回答了。

作者: 假装多好 时间: 2013-8-6 09:39:02

crosslease有的时候会有些麻烦的

作者: bungyjumping999 时间: 2013-8-6 10:06:19

本帖最后由 bungyjumping999 于 2013-8-6 10:08 编辑

full site vs cross lease = price different could be $100k - $300k even more.

if people have choice, they will choose full site, but housing price dictates choice.

Of course, it is ticking bombs when you are sharing land with neighbours and most common neighbours disputes - see neighbours from hell TV programme, you will see most are cross leased property with shared drive ways etc.

作者: NewLynnHse 时间: 2013-8-6 10:08:04

bungyjumping999 发表于 2013-8-6 10:06
full site vs cross lease = different could be 100k - 300k even more.

if people have choice, they ...

我觉得shared driveway确实有很多的问题，这个东西太容易坏了，坏了要修，修就要钱，谈钱伤感情，你懂的

作者: bungyjumping999 时间: 2013-8-6 10:10:55

本帖最后由 bungyjumping999 于 2013-8-6 10:17 编辑

NewLynnHse 发表于 2013-8-6 10:08
我觉得shared driveway确实有很多的问题，这个东西太容易坏了，坏了要修，修就要钱，谈钱伤感情，你懂的; ...

if one of your neighbour drive a truck home every night, and drive way starts to sink / crack....
you will see the angers among cross-lease neighbours........

If one of your neighbours like to look at your bedrooms because they are on higher grounds..... you will see privacy is impt and precious thing.........

if you hear someone snoring at night from other house, you will understand house is too close to the neighbours......

Yes, you can have 1/2th share of land, but you can't enjoy it, because you been watched .......

作者: NewLynnHse 时间: 2013-8-6 10:11:55

bungyjumping999 发表于 2013-8-6 10:10
if one of your neighbour drive a truck home every night, and drive way starts to sink / crack....
...

第二点好像不止是crosslease的问题

作者: bungyjumping999 时间: 2013-8-6 10:14:14

NewLynnHse 发表于 2013-8-6 10:11
第二点好像不止是crosslease的问题

yes, true.... finding an ideal house is not easy.....

作者: NewLynnHse 时间: 2013-8-6 10:17:03

bungyjumping999 发表于 2013-8-6 10:14
yes, true.... finding an ideal house is not easy.....

ahem，updated...

买房子要注意些什么？
http://bbs.skykiwi.com/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=2376797

作者: bungyjumping999 时间: 2013-8-6 10:22:46

本帖最后由 bungyjumping999 于 2013-8-6 10:25 编辑

NewLynnHse 发表于 2013-8-6 10:17
ahem，updated...

买房子要注意些什么？

Privacy is precious..... and don't want to feel being watched and to fully enjoy the land, even the land is just 400 sq m.

that is one of my priorities.

作者: NewLynnHse 时间: 2013-8-6 10:23:30

bungyjumping999 发表于 2013-8-6 10:22
Privacy is precious..... and don't want to feel being watched and to fully enjoy the land, even ...

it's getting harder and harder in AKL...

作者: 阿海 时间: 2013-8-6 10:27:13

bungyjumping999 发表于 2013-8-6 10:10
if one of your neighbour drive a truck home every night, and drive way starts to sink / crack....
...

半腹地分割出来fee simple的只要是有shared driveway照样会怕邻居一个大车来把driveway摧毁了。

higher grounds，全副地半腹地fee simple都一样，邻居近的就没办法，自己耳朵灵敏的就sound proof自己房子或搬到farm吧哈哈。。。privacy一个道理。

作者: 阿海 时间: 2013-8-6 10:27:40

bungyjumping999 发表于 2013-8-6 10:22
Privacy is precious..... and don't want to feel being watched and to fully enjoy the land, even ...

住农场就能解决问题了

作者: 注册了才发言 时间: 2013-8-6 10:32:39

同感。我记得我有个洋人朋友形容flat bush那边房子是晚上喝醉酒会回错家的地方。没有要贬低那边朋友的意思，千万别拍砖啊，只是觉得现在好多房子，造得都一样而且挨得还近。

作者: bungyjumping999 时间: 2013-8-6 11:17:43

阿海发表于 2013-8-6 10:27
住农场就能解决问题了

moving to farm is a bit exteme (for me at least).....

Bread and privacy, still have to choose bread

作者: NewLynnHse 时间: 2013-8-6 11:21:26

bungyjumping999 发表于 2013-8-6 11:17
moving to farm is a bit exteme (for me at least).....

Bread and privacy, still have to choose b ...

我是真的很想买个lifestyle block

作者: 注册了才发言 时间: 2013-8-6 11:31:18

NewLynnHse 发表于 2013-8-6 11:21
我是真的很想买个lifestyle block

会实现的。你现在那么努力，一定会比其他人早实现愿望的。

作者: winny 时间: 2013-8-6 21:32:10

作者: bungyjumping999 时间: 2013-8-13 09:54:20

本帖最后由 bungyjumping999 于 2013-8-13 09:57 编辑

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/proper ... 8&objectid=10911582

cross leased problem - decks asked to be demolished as no consent from cross leased neighbours....

No suprise as this houses are getting more and more expensive and neighbours are seeing common areas as their land.
Even it is on the side of your fence......

作者: NewLynnHse 时间: 2013-8-13 09:55:14

bungyjumping999 发表于 2013-8-13 09:54
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/property/news/article.cfm?c_id=8&objectid=10911582

cross leased problem ...

真傻，都做错了，还入禀高庭，结果变成4万多，还是得拆

作者: bungyjumping999 时间: 2013-8-13 09:58:50

NewLynnHse 发表于 2013-8-13 09:55
真傻，都做错了，还入禀高庭，结果变成4万多，还是得拆

some people are very stuborne... they like to fight because of pride.

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