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标题: 徘徊在读Master和考Microsoft证书之间,谁能给点意见? [打印本页]
作者: cloudysky    时间: 2009-12-7 13:17:37     标题: 徘徊在读Master和考Microsoft证书之间,谁能给点意见?

本帖最后由 cloudysky 于 2009-12-7 14:25 编辑

徘徊在读Master和考Microsoft证书之间,现在已经工作的GGMM,有谁能给点意见?

有读了Master然后找工作的人么,在找工作过程中觉得Master这头衔有用么?都找到些什么样的工作了,研究类的?
感觉做研究的工作风险挺大的,要刚好有你研究那方面的公司还好...不然?


考Microsoft证书对找工作应该或多或少有帮助吧?那读Master和考微软证书之间,那个选择会好些???
作者: variable    时间: 2009-12-7 13:29:47

Master是比较学术性的，Certificate是比较实用性的。

个人意见。
作者: 暗陰陽    时间: 2009-12-7 13:30:43

两个都没什么用
作者: missmia    时间: 2009-12-7 13:35:32

两个都没什么用
暗陰陽 发表于 2009-12-7 13:30


agree!
作者: cloudysky    时间: 2009-12-7 13:48:34

那难不成Bachelor才有用?也不可能再重新读一个Bachelor吧...
作者: variable    时间: 2009-12-7 13:51:04

本帖最后由 variable 于 2009-12-7 13:52 编辑

经验最重要，你读多少年书，就算你做了PHD(permanent head damage)也不代表你经验多。
不如多做些project，写在CV上多好看。

个人意见。
作者: 无过    时间: 2009-12-7 13:54:15

experience is the king' way~~
作者: 海陆    时间: 2009-12-7 13:55:48

7# 无过 Deep agree!
作者: ihouse.co.nz    时间: 2009-12-7 14:12:12

Unlike most Asia countries, NZ is more focus on job experience rather than education.
作者: cloudysky    时间: 2009-12-7 14:18:16

关键是要拿工作经验前提是总得找到份像样的工作吧...
问题是之前读的Bachelor学位学的东西有点太杂了,哈,好像跟啥工作都扯得上,又好像跟啥工作都不怎么扯得上(啥都学了)...
作者: cloudysky    时间: 2009-12-7 14:23:11

有读过Master的人,在找工作的时候发觉Master的用处么?都找到了什么工作了???
作者: variable    时间: 2009-12-7 14:24:53

楼主可能是在说类似于鸡蛋与蛋的问题吧，没经验就没工作，没工作就没经验。
其实可以从某个方面开始，自己建个网页，给其他open source project写点code，写一些Plugin之类的。这样可以提高自己在这个区域的知名度，这也是经验啊。
作者: cloudysky    时间: 2009-12-7 14:28:33

这就是问题了...
当初在新西兰大学里学的Bachelor,专业课程安排上像是什么都沾上边的.有电脑编程,电子,网络安全,还有商科的(都是compulsory),现在什么都懂,不过都是懂一点,哈哈.
作者: cloudysky    时间: 2009-12-7 14:29:48

你还没有准备好去山区过朴素的生活啊MamaMia?

agree!
missmia 发表于 2009-12-7 13:35
作者: variable    时间: 2009-12-7 14:42:08

这就是问题了...
当初在新西兰大学里学的Bachelor,专业课程安排上像是什么都沾上边的.有电脑编程,电子,网络安全,还有商科的(都是compulsory),现在什么都懂,不过都是懂一点,哈哈.
cloudysky 发表于 2009-12-7 14:28
其实也是个很好的基础，不同一些只会一种技术的，无论什么问题都只会用自己会用的一种技术去解决。站在外一点的角度可以有很多的解决方法。
作者: cloudysky    时间: 2009-12-7 14:49:28

哈哈,我是可以这么想,关键是雇主不一定那么认为啊,到后来就变得一厢情愿了.
哎,当初那个专业也是挺难学的,早知道就挑个专门学编程的专业了.
现在后悔当初选专业的时候没有问一下前辈,当时来这里不久也没认识几个人,而且我也不知道也类似于Skykiwi之类的网站.

现在害怕了,做什么决定也问问论坛上的前辈.
作者: missmia    时间: 2009-12-7 14:50:32

这就是问题了...
当初在新西兰大学里学的Bachelor,专业课程安排上像是什么都沾上边的.有电脑编程,电子,网络安全,还有商科的(都是compulsory),现在什么都懂,不过都是懂一点,哈哈.
cloudysky 发表于 2009-12-7 14:28


你学什么专业？
作者: missmia    时间: 2009-12-7 14:53:15

你还没有准备好去山区过朴素的生活啊MamaMia?


cloudysky 发表于 2009-12-7 14:29



=_=

it's maMMa mia.....

山区没有这么快，人家还不一定批准。

PS刚才发的时候搞出了这个error msg:
您的请求来路不正确，无法提交
作者: variable    时间: 2009-12-7 14:54:55

哈哈,我是可以这么想,关键是雇主不一定那么认为啊,到后来就变得一厢情愿了.
哎,当初那个专业也是挺难学的,早知道就挑个专门学编程的专业了.
现在后悔当初选专业的时候没有问一下前辈,当时来这里不久也没认识几个人 ...
cloudysky 发表于 2009-12-7 14:49
其实做interview的时候有一个阶段是雇主问你为什么要请你，这时是你最重要的环节，也就是说跟他BS一下，跟雇主说说你自己的想法，一个有主见和有看法的雇员是不错的。
作者: cloudysky    时间: 2009-12-7 15:01:04

哎,别提了,哈,怕被人认出来,追杀我就不好了.
你怎么总是背着老板的面在上班时候上网啊MammaMia?

你学什么专业？
missmia 发表于 2009-12-7 14:50
作者: cloudysky    时间: 2009-12-7 15:04:43

这个是可能是途中有别人用了另一个Skykiwi account登陆了,然后你之前的帖子没关...
没事,我家也住山区,我批准你过来...

=_=

it's maMMa mia.....

山区没有这么快，人家还不一定批准。

PS刚才发的时候搞出了这个error msg:
您的请求来路不正确，无法提交
missmia 发表于 2009-12-7 14:53
作者: ybbest    时间: 2009-12-7 15:05:34

本帖最后由 ybbest 于 2009-12-7 15:14 编辑

Depends,if you are under pressure to find a job.You need to try to do a lot of the following stuff to improve your employments.
If you are not under pressure to find a job go to do master and try to do Microsoft certification on you own time.( I did 2 ms certs this year , doing part-time study on software engineering and work full time)1 day a week for ms certs is plenty time.
作者: cloudysky    时间: 2009-12-7 15:06:15

本帖最后由 cloudysky 于 2009-12-7 15:12 编辑

估计这年头,裁员还来不及,估计人家难得找要Training的了.
编程的除外,老实说,我后来发觉学编程的,你学的东西就是你以后工作要用到的东西(就是编程嘛),估计雇主就问,你懂Java吧?C呢?做过点啥Project了?之类的.

学网络安全的就不一样了,总得扯上什么Microsoft Cisco一大堆.
人家问你会管理Windows Server和Client么?会配置Cisco的xxxx Firewall么?你立马就傻眼了...

其实做interview的时候有一个阶段是雇主问你为什么要请你，这时是你最重要的环节，也就是说跟他BS一下，跟雇主说说你自己的想法，一个有主见和有看法的雇员是不错的。
variable 发表于 2009-12-7 14:54
作者: missmia    时间: 2009-12-7 15:09:21

哎,别提了,哈,怕被人认出来,追杀我就不好了.
你怎么总是背着老板的面在上班时候上网啊MammaMia?


cloudysky 发表于 2009-12-7 15:01


版里的人都在上班时间上网啊。

我在等开会。顺便帮别人考个image

如果是BBIM一类的前景还是挺乐观的。可以是找工作的时候寻找错了方向。variable给了一些不错的建议。
作者: variable    时间: 2009-12-7 15:14:32

估计这年头,裁员还来不及,估计人家难得找要Training的了.
编程的除外,老实说,我后来发觉学编程的,你学的东西就是你以后工作要用到的东西(就是编程嘛).
学网络安全的就不一样了,总得扯上什么Microsoft Cisco一大堆. ...
cloudysky 发表于 2009-12-7 15:06
来加入我们的software development群
http://nzsd.groups.live.com
作者: cloudysky    时间: 2009-12-7 15:16:58

哈哈,被你猜对一大半了,我找的电脑店搞安装维修之类的,毕竟这个最在行.
不敢找什么Network Administrator 和System Administrator之类的,对Windows Severs和Client管理这些应用类的东西不怎么熟悉.

版里的人都在上班时间上网啊。

我在等开会。顺便帮别人考个image

如果是BBIM一类的前景还是挺乐观的。可以是找工作的时候寻找错了方向。variable给了一些不错的建议。
missmia 发表于 2009-12-7 15:09
作者: missmia    时间: 2009-12-7 15:22:24

哈哈,被你猜对一大半了,我找的电脑店搞安装维修之类的,毕竟这个最在行.
不敢找什么Network Administrator 和System Administrator之类的,对Windows Severs和Client管理这些应用类的东西不怎么熟悉.


cloudysky 发表于 2009-12-7 15:16


那你就是想找编程方面的吗？还是network specialist方面的呢？
作者: cloudysky    时间: 2009-12-7 15:25:06

本帖最后由 cloudysky 于 2009-12-7 15:27 编辑

Right. Just not feeling confident about everything, as I don't have much practical experience, and most System/Network admin positions require experience with WinServ or Windows client systems management. I am wondering if I should keep going in the same direction, do a Master or get a certificate or, get another degree.

By the way, I don't have much programming skills, though I did learn quite a bit Java. But thanks for your offer anyway.

Depends,if you are under pressure to find a job.You need to try to do a lot of the following stuff to improve your employments.

Microsoft certification Reading the code of some open source proje ...
ybbest 发表于 2009-12-7 15:05
作者: cloudysky    时间: 2009-12-7 15:30:36

本帖最后由 cloudysky 于 2009-12-7 15:33 编辑

系统和网络管理吧,但想选哪个可就不是我一厢情愿的事情了...

我要去你老板哪告发你,说你用公司的网络资源在私人用途上.
那你就可以去山区当夏娃去了.

那你就是想找编程方面的吗？还是network specialist方面的呢？
missmia 发表于 2009-12-7 15:22
作者: cloudysky    时间: 2009-12-7 15:32:14

这个就是问题了,当初学校的课程安排里面,Programming的只有4个Papers...
Anyway, thanks for your offer.

来加入我们的software development群
http://nzsd.groups.live.com
variable 发表于 2009-12-7 15:14
作者: missmia    时间: 2009-12-7 15:33:34

系统和网络管理吧,但想选哪个可就不是我一厢情愿的事情了...

我要去你老板哪告发你,说你用公司的网络资源在私人用途上.
那你就可以去山区当夏娃去了.


cloudysky 发表于 2009-12-7 15:30




大学有一些entry level的 system admin，看看有没有机会。
作者: cloudysky    时间: 2009-12-7 15:40:07

试过了,不过就试过一回.
俺脸皮不厚,不敢试第二回了.

不过我倒是有个疑惑,要是万一我毕业后一年后找不到合适的工作,是不是说我的IT生涯已经被判死刑了...




大学有一些entry level的 system admin，看看有没有机会。
missmia 发表于 2009-12-7 15:33
作者: 钱塘居士    时间: 2009-12-7 15:52:42

其实做interview的时候有一个阶段是雇主问你为什么要请你，这时是你最重要的环节，也就是说跟他BS一下，跟雇主说说你自己的想法，一个有主见和有看法的雇员是不错的。
variable 发表于 2009-12-7 14:54
这个问题我也被问过，请教一下大家，一般你们是怎么回答的。
作者: cloudysky    时间: 2009-12-7 15:57:53

本帖最后由 cloudysky 于 2009-12-7 16:01 编辑


那问题回答起来太复杂了吧,很难一概而论,说得自己太弱了嘛,又说自信不够,说得太强了又说brag,说一就见仁见智了,还是别难为别人为你解答了吧.
个人觉得最重要是自己有料到.

这个问题我也被问过，请教一下大家，一般你们是怎么回答的。
钱塘居士 发表于 2009-12-7 15:52
作者: missmia    时间: 2009-12-7 16:38:44


那问题回答起来太复杂了吧,很难一概而论,说得自己太弱了嘛,又说自信不够,说得太强了又说brag,说一就见仁见智了,还是别难为别人为你解答了吧.
个人觉得最重要是自己有料到.


cloudysky 发表于 2009-12-7 15:57


MS我没有被问过这样的问题。。。

两个interview，一个general一个technical的。
作者: cloudysky    时间: 2009-12-7 16:46:17

估计就是在专业不太对口的情况下会问到吧.
作者: missmia    时间: 2009-12-7 16:54:00

估计就是在专业不太对口的情况下会问到吧.
cloudysky 发表于 2009-12-7 16:46


跟公司文化也有关系的。。。

有的公司是在seek上找interview的题目的

网上有很多 sample answer ：p
作者: ihouse.co.nz    时间: 2009-12-7 17:28:56

这个问题我也被问过，请教一下大家，一般你们是怎么回答的。
钱塘居士 发表于 2009-12-7 15:52


Basically for this question the interviewer is asking your strengths. For example, if an IT company is looking for a senior .NET developer. You can tell them that you have N years .NET programming experience, N years of design experience...etc, you are familiar with the technologies that the company are using therefore you can pick up the works fast. Then just tell the interviewer couple projects that you work as key player or leader, and how you completed the projects on time.
作者: 年糕    时间: 2009-12-7 17:41:24

作者: 117wik    时间: 2009-12-7 17:47:58

系统和网络管理吧,但想选哪个可就不是我一厢情愿的事情了...

cloudysky 发表于 2009-12-7 15:30


Are you Auckland based? Do you need someone to talk to in regards to how and where to start? I was kind of on the same boat as you when i first started (worst in some way), i tried to break in to IT after graduated with an BE (E&E) degree and wasn't getting anywhere for 6 months, at the end i did an MCSE intensive training course and found a job after that.

系统 and 网络管理 are the field that i started off with and i am more than happy to chat/provide a direction if i can be of any help.
作者: 117wik    时间: 2009-12-7 17:51:20

徘徊在读Master和考Microsoft证书之间,现在已经工作的GGMM,有谁能给点意见?

有读了Master然后找工作的人么,在找工作过程中觉得Master这头衔有用么?都找到些什么样的工作了,研究类的?
感觉做研究的工作风险挺大的 ...
cloudysky 发表于 2009-12-7 13:17


In terms of job hunting, personally i will say certification is more useful than master degree. Having just the cert and not knowing anything about IT isn't going to help though (way too many highly certified people out there that doens't know shit). Saying that if you put effort into it and learn all the content of microsoft certification properly and know enough about the basic, and do speak reasonablly good english, finding a job should still be possible even in the current market.
作者: cloudysky    时间: 2009-12-7 17:58:24

Hey mate. That seems to be helpful. I was wondering if I should get an MCSE too as I am not sure whether I'll be just paying for nothing, given that most people consider this MCSE stuffs as useless.

I did stay in Auckland for a while, work on a temporary on call postion which was somewhat related to I.T.. The Economy is still under recession. Now I am back in Christchurch and, wondering where I shall do next.

So, you mean that the MCSE could help in some way, right?  

Are you Auckland based? Do you need someone to talk to in regards to how and where to start? I was kind of on the same boat as you when i first started (worst in some way), i tried to break in to  ...
117wik 发表于 2009-12-7 17:47
作者: cloudysky    时间: 2009-12-7 18:10:32

I was thinking of doing a Master as it is a "Degree" anyway, while a MCSE certificate could mean nothing if you couldn't find a relavant job. So I wonder if anyone here completed a Master and, it does help in job seeking in some way.

With regard to my spoken English, I could say that it is "reasonably" good.
作者: cloudysky    时间: 2009-12-7 18:23:07

哎,没有实践经验的人Interview的时候很容易出漏子d...

人家问:你会备份吗?
答:我会.
人家问:那你用什么软件备份?
答:厄......


跟公司文化也有关系的。。。

有的公司是在seek上找interview的题目的

网上有很多 sample answer ：p
missmia 发表于 2009-12-7 16:54
作者: newmike    时间: 2009-12-7 18:24:10

徘徊在读Master和考Microsoft证书之间,现在已经工作的GGMM,有谁能给点意见?

有读了Master然后找工作的人么,在找工作过程中觉得Master这头衔有用么?都找到些什么样的工作了,研究类的?
感觉做研究的工作风险挺大的 ...
cloudysky 发表于 2009-12-7 13:17


在NZ找IT工作的话，如果你没有一丁点工作经验，机会是很少的，master和证书都没甚么帮助。
至于如何取得第一份经验(may or may not be 正式工作)，法子因人而异，我是先找part time工 --> volunter工 --> fix-term --> 正式工，比较曲折，我的一个好朋友先是在一个华人电脑店打PT工 --> FT工 --> 办身份 --> 跳槽到洋人的公司，也不轻松。但是也有人一毕业，随便投几份CV，就得到一份很好的offer的，每个人的命和运都不同，所以，找第一份工作时，要因人而异，以平常心对待。
作者: cloudysky    时间: 2009-12-7 18:33:19

本帖最后由 cloudysky 于 2009-12-7 18:43 编辑

哦...
那要是已经有了身份了呢.

在NZ找IT工作的话，如果你没有一丁点工作经验，机会是很少的，master和证书都没甚么帮助。
至于如何取得第一份经验(may or may not be 正式工作)，法子因人而异，我是先找part time工 --> volunter工 --> fix-t ...
newmike 发表于 2009-12-7 18:24
作者: newmike    时间: 2009-12-7 18:43:14

至于身份，对于没身份的人来说，多了一个减分的理由，对于有身份的人来说，不是加分的理由。
作者: cloudysky    时间: 2009-12-7 18:45:19

那里有Volunteer的工作?
作者: 117wik    时间: 2009-12-7 19:01:42

Hey mate. That seems to be helpful. I was wondering if I should get an MCSE too as I am not sure whether I'll be just paying for nothing, given that most people consider this MCSE stuffs as useless.
...
cloudysky 发表于 2009-12-7 17:58


there are a few things that i need to clarify here:
- no one will consider MCSE/other Microsoft certification being useless. It is true that there are way too many paper certified people out there that know nothing bout shit, but having a relevant degree + a few commercially recognisable certification should still increase the likelyhood of getting short listed or interview. Main thing is to make sure that you don't turn yourself into one of those useless paper certified. If you put all the effort in and work and study hard and learn it properly (by setting up a lab/VM/small network etc), getting a MCSe/equivalnet will not be a waste of time that's for sure.

- Doing IT certification doens't have to be an expensive exercise, as long as you know what exams you want to do etc, there are lots of free materials downloadable from the internet.
作者: 117wik    时间: 2009-12-7 19:07:25

I was thinking of doing a Master as it is a "Degree" anyway, while a MCSE certificate could mean nothing if you couldn't find a relavant job. So I wonder if anyone here completed a Master and, it does ...
cloudysky 发表于 2009-12-7 18:10


My way of looking at this is, what really interest you the most? If sys/network administration is something you can see yourself doing for the rest of your life, whether it will help you find a job or not, u will still go and do it right?  Unless you are considering jumping in to a different industry, in that case doing a master degree might help. Otherwise you will be better off getting more hands on experience (volunteering, setup small lab at home, learn from friends with more experience, anything will help) and get certified in one of the more widely known IT certification.
作者: newmike    时间: 2009-12-7 19:11:15

Volunteer的工作其实不好找，也得看机会。当时先是一个同学找了份IT工，台湾人老板，作项目又想省钱，拉上另一个写code很猛的哥们做Volunteer，项目做一半，和猛人闹翻了(具体的谁对谁错，我也不是很清楚)，于是问我愿不愿接Volunteer，我想先拿点经验值再说，就接了。
最重要的经验是 - 如有可能的话，不要给台湾人老板打工。
作者: missmia    时间: 2009-12-7 19:11:32

哎,没有实践经验的人Interview的时候很容易出漏子d...

人家问:你会备份吗?
答:我会.
人家问:那你用什么软件备份?
答:厄......



cloudysky 发表于 2009-12-7 18:23


你可以说你自己写script备份。。。。不用别人的软件。
作者: 117wik    时间: 2009-12-7 19:16:50

哎,没有实践经验的人Interview的时候很容易出漏子d...

人家问:你会备份吗?
答:我会.
人家问:那你用什么软件备份?
答:厄......

cloudysky 发表于 2009-12-7 18:23


u know what? you have to be more positive about the whole thing. If you are so negative starting from the begining, how do you expect to convince others when you yourself are not convinced that you can do it?

In the scenario listed above, if i were in your shoe, if someone ask me what backup software i know of/have used in the past, i will tell them straight that, i am just a new grad, i learn everything i know off from self study/uni lab/lab testing at home/book. I don't have any commercial experience in any enterprise backup solution just yet, but i do understand the basic concept of what "backup" actually means and how they are used in a company, and i am confident that given the right opportunity i will be able to learn and pick up whatever backup solution that you guys currently have in place in no time. As i strongly believe that IT is not hard, and everyone can be trained given the right opportunity, but having the right attitude is not something that can be taught and i strongly believe that i do have the right attitute to perform well in your IT team.

Don't forget that most companies already know you are just a fresh graduate from your CV when they decided to interview you, and being a new graduate, you have the luxury of being able to act frank and tell them that you DON't KNOW the answer to some of their questions, as long as you can converse with them confidently and be able to convince them that you are have the right attitude and are confident that you are a fast learner, why wouldn't they give you an opportunity?
作者: cloudysky    时间: 2009-12-7 19:26:13

我当时说的是用手动的....

别鄙视我,一般个人电脑备份那用啥软件.

你可以说你自己写script备份。。。。不用别人的软件。
missmia 发表于 2009-12-7 19:11
作者: cloudysky    时间: 2009-12-7 19:32:36

本帖最后由 cloudysky 于 2009-12-7 19:42 编辑

Ya you are right. That's why I answered them straightly away that, I backup manually.

Tough sometimes it could be hard to maintain a "postive" attitude if you keep receiving rejection emails and, when you have had enough, you would probably start to think about what went wrong...


u know what? you have to be more positive about the whole thing. If you are so negative starting from the begining, how do you expect to convince others when you yourself are not convinced that yo ...
117wik 发表于 2009-12-7 19:16
作者: Foody    时间: 2009-12-7 19:33:12

读master 没什么大的用处, 如果没有经验的话, certification也没多大用处. MS Certification 都有bible , 40-50道选择题几乎说明不了什么问题.  关键还是自身的水平. 这些在interview的时候一问就能问出来了. 如果是graduate job, 那完全就是拼成绩了, 一般来说成绩好的, 的确是水平高的. 大学成绩好的话,机会比较大, 而且平时对自己领域内的东西要自我更新, 最起码要显得你比较主动的学东西.  找IT 工作, 一半是运气, 而且第一份工作基本决定你以后的走向了.
作者: Foody    时间: 2009-12-7 19:36:35

去Intergen, Unisys 看看, 他们招graduate, 其他IT 公司很少招 graduate 的, 除非是有人resign 或者其他原因.
作者: cloudysky    时间: 2009-12-7 19:40:58

Ya, System/network admin, that's what I've been pursuing...
To be honest, I don't really think that a "Master" will do any good either. I read quite a few research dissertations produced by previous Canterbury master students and, I've no idea why they would like to spend their effort on this crap...


My way of looking at this is, what really interest you the most? If sys/network administration is something you can see yourself doing for the rest of your life, whether it will help you find a jo ...
117wik 发表于 2009-12-7 19:07
作者: cloudysky    时间: 2009-12-7 19:45:28

估计成绩好也不全然,还得看你学的什么...
至于运气嘛,哈,这经济危机刚好来的是时候.


读master 没什么大的用处, 如果没有经验的话, certification也没多大用处. MS Certification 都有bible , 40-50道选择题几乎说明不了什么问题.  关键还是自身的水平. 这些在interview的时候一问就能问出来了. 如果是 ...
Foody 发表于 2009-12-7 19:33
作者: Foody    时间: 2009-12-7 19:53:04

估计成绩好也不全然,还得看你学的什么...
至于运气嘛,哈,这经济危机刚好来的是时候.



cloudysky 发表于 2009-12-7 19:45


其他major 不好说, 如果cs 能门门拿A的话, 绝对不会差的.
作者: cloudysky    时间: 2009-12-7 19:53:51

本帖最后由 cloudysky 于 2009-12-7 20:00 编辑

哎,别提CS了...
我要是当年读了CS的话就不用沦落到这地步了.

话也说来,新西兰大学也害人不浅啊...
作者: Foody    时间: 2009-12-7 20:00:03

IT 不一定要做 developer, 为什么不尝试一下 BA, Tester, 呢
作者: cloudysky    时间: 2009-12-7 20:01:10

只要扯上Programming估计就没我的份了.
作者: newmike    时间: 2009-12-7 20:02:43

估计成绩好也不全然,还得看你学的什么...
至于运气嘛,哈,这经济危机刚好来的是时候.



cloudysky 发表于 2009-12-7 19:45


同意。
当初我一哥们honors first class毕业一年也没找不到工，最后转行做建筑业。不过，塞翁失马，听说现在都有自己的公司了。所以说，如果可能的话，非IT工也应该认真考虑，我当初的同学现在还作IT的20%都没有。
作者: cloudysky    时间: 2009-12-7 20:07:06

兄弟,你那哥们不会跟我是同一大学毕业的吧?{:7_357:}
能PM我告诉是哪家大学不?
作者: newmike    时间: 2009-12-7 20:19:55

大学没问题，NZ top one。
但是他毕业时正赶上美国的IT泡沫垮台的时候，当时就看不到IT招人的，都是裁人，几百人的IT项目组，整个解散。当时大家对IT都不指望了。这次经济危机对IT的打击，远还不及那次，所以，还是有希望的！
作者: cloudysky    时间: 2009-12-7 20:30:36

NZ top one....
那就是奥克兰大学啦,这大学听说倒是应该不错.

不过这回经济危机估计也好不了去那里,不过搞编程的好像还是没啥问题,当然是得比较拔尖的才行了.
作者: newmike    时间: 2009-12-7 20:40:09

现在经济是不太好，不过希望2010年IT恢复过来，seek上的IT工已经比6个月前已经好多了，前途还是光明的。
作者: cloudysky    时间: 2009-12-7 21:00:38

2010年太遥远了兄弟.
作者: newmike    时间: 2009-12-7 23:42:30

2010年太遥远了兄弟.
cloudysky 发表于 2009-12-7 21:00


四周就到2010年了，算working week的话就两周了，要找好工作，一定要坚持到底呀。
作者: ironwires    时间: 2009-12-8 09:55:00

提示: 作者被禁止或删除 内容自动屏蔽
作者: y2k2002    时间: 2009-12-8 10:00:41

没有经验只能先走 programmer 的路了 技术一定要强，我上班2，3年了，觉得技术强 最重要，及时刚毕业，技术很强的话（当然也要practical）也蛮吃香的
作者: y2k2002    时间: 2009-12-8 10:01:16

宁愿要面试方觉得你吹牛也不要让他们看出你不自信，阿三为什么比我们混的好，人家吹牛一个顶俩，技术不行先给你吹个天花乱坠，能先进去公司就是胜利，东西可以慢慢学，这就是阿三们的策略。我们中国人脸皮薄就不 ...
ironwires 发表于 2009-12-8 09:55


严重同意
作者: cloudysky    时间: 2009-12-8 10:48:31

我后来也发觉这个在某种意思上是值得参考的,只是实在有点挺难为情.

宁愿要面试方觉得你吹牛也不要让他们看出你不自信，阿三为什么比我们混的好，人家吹牛一个顶俩，技术不行先给你吹个天花乱坠，能先进去公司就是胜利，东西可以慢慢学，这就是阿三们的策略。我们中国人脸皮薄就不 ...
ironwires 发表于 2009-12-8 09:55
作者: cloudysky    时间: 2009-12-8 10:58:14

我后来也发觉学Programming的是学的就是用到的,可惜已经太迟了
我的课程里面就两三个Programming的papers.


没有经验只能先走 programmer 的路了 技术一定要强，我上班2，3年了，觉得技术强 最重要，及时刚毕业，技术很强的话（当然也要practical）也蛮吃香的
y2k2002 发表于 2009-12-8 10:00
作者: variable    时间: 2009-12-8 11:02:34

本帖最后由 variable 于 2009-12-9 14:22 编辑

其实我觉得凡是开始新的工作，雇主都不会要求你第一天就可以plug n play
interview bullshit以后，可以用这段缓冲时间攻克需要的知识。

just my 2cents.
作者: imimim    时间: 2009-12-8 14:20:56

两个都考，再多做project不就好啦！
作者: afk    时间: 2009-12-8 15:36:06

不错的讨论贴，马克一下，以便翻阅=。=
作者: cloudysky    时间: 2009-12-9 14:08:31

读PhD,再拿几张Cisco和几张Microsoft,那更好.

两个都考，再多做project不就好啦！
imimim 发表于 2009-12-8 14:20
作者: cloudysky    时间: 2009-12-9 14:09:19

其实我也很纳闷,是不是大家成功找到工作的Interview,都是使劲吹自己吹得天花乱坠那种...


其实我觉得凡是开始新的工作，雇主都不会要求你第一天就可以plug in play
interview bullshit以后，可以用这段缓冲时间攻克需要的知识。

just my 2cents.
variable 发表于 2009-12-8 11:02
作者: 117wik    时间: 2009-12-9 14:20:56

其实我也很纳闷,是不是大家成功找到工作的Interview,都是使劲吹自己吹得天花乱坠那种...

cloudysky 发表于 2009-12-9 14:09


I got into Telecom because they liked my attitude and determination. I always knew what i wanted to do in terms of career in my early days and i spent shit load of time and effort (self study, lab, certification tc) to make myself stand out among all candidates, and that's how i broke into a field that i know nothing about and have no experience in.

oversell yourself is one thing, but doing it too much over is another. I have interviewed way too many candidates that call themselves expert in this and that and have absolutely nothing at all to back their argument up. You need to at least know what you are talking about to be able to "blow" about it i suppose.
作者: pAtrick    时间: 2009-12-9 14:21:45

读PhD,再拿几张Cisco和几张Microsoft,那更好.


cloudysky 发表于 2009-12-9 14:08


没工作经验还是找不到工作。

楼上很多朋友都已经说过了，要找到好工作得先跳出学历这个死圈子
作者: cloudysky    时间: 2009-12-9 14:28:03

我那个是向楼上的imimim同志学习嘛.......
作者: pAtrick    时间: 2009-12-9 14:30:49

我从来不相信多考证书有什么用。尤其是两门不一样的证书。cisco是system/network admin的证书，microsoft的是software developer的证书。那我问你，你以后到底想做sysadmin还是developer？

IT业内容很广泛，不可能样样精通的。楼主自己先确定以后想攻哪一个方向比较好
作者: cloudysky    时间: 2009-12-9 14:34:48

你说的对,只是我总觉得越是了解自己越是觉得自己学的不够多,虽然其实我看不同的网络应用安全书籍起来其实也不太费劲...
何况网络安全方面的东西,大学学的很Conceptual,实际用起来的话,就牵扯上不同的服务器平台之类的了...这大概跟Programming有点区别吧.

I got into Telecom because they liked my attitude and determination. I always knew what i wanted to do in terms of career in my early days and i spent shit load of time and effort (self study, lab ...
117wik 发表于 2009-12-9 14:20
作者: taomibaobao    时间: 2009-12-9 14:35:30

该说的楼上几位都说了。。我就是路过。。。
作者: 腿毛菲菲    时间: 2009-12-9 14:39:40

我也路过，顺便学习～～～～～～～
作者: 117wik    时间: 2009-12-9 14:39:44

你说的对,只是我总觉得越是了解自己越是觉得自己学的不够多,虽然其实我看不同的网络应用安全书籍起来其实也不太费劲...
何况网络安全方面的东西,大学学的很Conceptual,实际用起来的话,就牵扯上不同的服务器平台之类 ...
cloudysky 发表于 2009-12-9 14:34


that's why you need to be realistic and also know where you want to be in mid/long term. If you are into system/network administration/security, then getting a job in helpdesk/desktop support might not be a bad idea. If that's the case the next thing you need to figure out is, what do you need to have to increase your chance of getting a job in those fields.

You are right that a lot of what i/we do in security seems to be just common sense, but every single "common sense" decision we made are backed by years of experience as well as knowledge gain from either certification/projects.
作者: ihouse.co.nz    时间: 2009-12-9 14:49:18

...but every single "common sense" decision we made are backed by years ofexperience as well as knowledge gain from either certification/projects...
117wik 发表于 2009-12-9 14:39


Couldn't agree more!!!
作者: cloudysky    时间: 2009-12-9 19:37:12

兄弟,Cisco和Microsoft都有Network Admin方面的证书吧...前面的就不用说了,后面的不是现在叫MCITP嘛.

我从来不相信多考证书有什么用。尤其是两门不一样的证书。cisco是system/network admin的证书，microsoft的是software developer的证书。那我问你，你以后到底想做sysadmin还是developer？

IT业内容很广泛，不可能 ...
pAtrick 发表于 2009-12-9 14:30
作者: cloudysky    时间: 2009-12-9 19:52:40

Well I can't agree more but so far as I know, as a helpdesk support staff your English has to be excellent. A fresh graduate who speaks "reasonably good" english might later find that commucation skills could become a great obstacle, though I do think that a helpdesk position could be a good entry point and, I may have a try too.


that's why you need to be realistic and also know where you want to be in mid/long term. If you are into system/network administration/security, then getting a job in helpdesk/desktop support migh ...
117wik 发表于 2009-12-9 14:39
作者: fang    时间: 2009-12-9 20:14:04

很好的讨论贴
收藏, 路过
作者: variable    时间: 2009-12-9 20:51:45

本帖最后由 variable 于 2009-12-9 20:54 编辑

91# cloudysky
I think if you cannot succeed in a helpdesk role, you will face big problem in a proper IT role, as if you misunderstood someone could lead to a major outage.

Being a helpdesk person, you are given chances to know the company's architecture, once you are familiar with it, you then can move on to 2nd level support, then proper system admin.
作者: pAtrick    时间: 2009-12-9 21:56:44

兄弟,Cisco和Microsoft都有Network Admin方面的证书吧...前面的就不用说了,后面的不是现在叫MCITP嘛.


cloudysky 发表于 2009-12-9 19:37


你懂我什么意思就行，不用跟我抬杠
作者: missmia    时间: 2009-12-9 21:59:42

Well I can't agree more but so far as I know, as a helpdesk support staff your English has to be excellent. A fresh graduate who speaks "reasonably good" english might later find that commucation skil ...
cloudysky 发表于 2009-12-9 19:52


口语能力和IT技能一样都是可以通过练习提高的。人不可能永远停留在一个水平。
作者: cloudysky    时间: 2009-12-9 22:11:16

Kidding kidding...{:7_347:}  

你懂我什么意思就行，不用跟我抬杠
pAtrick 发表于 2009-12-9 21:56
作者: cloudysky    时间: 2009-12-9 22:13:01

你来啦大闲人...

我也是这么想,可惜你不是我老板.

口语能力和IT技能一样都是可以通过练习提高的。人不可能永远停留在一个水平。
missmia 发表于 2009-12-9 21:59
作者: missmia    时间: 2009-12-9 22:16:51

你来啦大闲人...

我也是这么想,可惜你不是我老板.

cloudysky 发表于 2009-12-9 22:13


汗一个。。。回你两个贴就成了大闲人了。貌似我还有要加班的时候。
作者: cloudysky    时间: 2009-12-9 22:17:50

本帖最后由 cloudysky 于 2009-12-9 22:28 编辑

Ya helpdesk role, phone based...
I just need to start somewhere, anyway, so I just need to get the right chance.


So, in conclusion, a Master degree may not make much difference, since no one ever recommended this in the previous posts, but a certificate may help in a certain way.

91# cloudysky
I think if you cannot succeed in a helpdesk role, you will face big problem in a proper IT role, as if you misunderstood someone could lead to a major outage.

Being a helpdesk perso ...
variable 发表于 2009-12-9 20:51
作者: pAtrick    时间: 2009-12-9 22:18:57

汗一个。。。回你两个贴就成了大闲人了。貌似我还有要加班的时候。
missmia 发表于 2009-12-9 22:16


你看上去的确挺闲的……



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